Swix Cera FC2 is for wet -- bad in cold?

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Swix Cera FC2 is for wet -- bad in cold?

Postby JeffOYB » Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:04 am

So, FC2 from what I read is designed for warm old wet snow.

What happens if it's used in colder regular snow? Like say 20 deg hard pack.

Is it, "Oh no, wrong Cera, throw the brakes on!"

Or is it still a decent top coat compared to skipping fluoro entirely?
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Re: Swix Cera FC2 is for wet -- bad in cold?

Postby Blah » Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:56 am

Warm fluor blocks in cold snow are going to slow your skis down. You are better off sticking with the correct paraffin for the temps.

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Re: Swix Cera FC2 is for wet -- bad in cold?

Postby JeffOYB » Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:20 am

OK.

How about 25F semi-old snow in *humid* Michigan?

That stuff says 32>50F. Think in humid snow it might work well down to 25-28?

Maybe there's cold then there's cold...

I often find that I have to kickwax warmer here -- I'm guessing due to humidity.
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Re: Swix Cera FC2 is for wet -- bad in cold?

Postby Blah » Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:38 am

Some blocks have bigger ranges that they are effective in than others. Ones that come to mind are Rex Tk72, Start SFR99, Ski-Go Mid08.

They work well in a variety of conditions and then they have a sweet spot where they are exceptional at certain temps. The FC1 and FC 2 blocks were not very good fluor blocks. They just aren't as good as most other brands. That being said I can't speak for how wide the range is on the FC2 block. I tried it a few times and found it to be slower than even Toko Fluor blocks.

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Re: Swix Cera FC2 is for wet -- bad in cold?

Postby JeffOYB » Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:50 am

Whew, thanks. I like wax voodoo but another part of me is glad I haven't gone too far over to that dark side. I sure have enjoyed it when I've hit a wax home-run, tho!

And I really appreciated that tip last year about the Rex Brown Klister -- used it again for our recent corn -- great stuff!
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Re: Swix Cera FC2 is for wet -- bad in cold?

Postby Blah » Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:00 am

There really isn't anything vodoo about it Jeff. All of the wax products are going to work somewhat in the conditions that the packaging describes. Some are going to work better than others, that's the only part that is difficult. Learning what products work better in some conditions.

Common mistakes that people make:

- Not all kick waxes work in all conditions. Swix and Rode hard waxes simply do not work as well in old snow abrassive conditions as brands like Start and Vauhti. Continuing to try to use those brands on the wrong snow type is going to get you no where. Switch brands and try something different rather than going warmer than the suggested temps on the tin

- Testing - No one is testing anything of note unless they have several factory matched test skis picked directly from the manufacturer. If they don't have this their "test" results are worthless.

Comparing wax jobs - Are you on the same exact skis, flex, structure, wax job? Did you apply your kick wax exactly the same? If not then comparing glide and kick with another person is worthless.

So how do you know what to use when? I would look at manufacturer reports from people that are actually at a venue testing and helping with wax. You are welcome to use a wax report from someone in New Hampshire for a race in WI but buyer beware they likely don't know what the snow type is, how hilly the course is, how dirty the trail is. A great example of this was the Swix wax rec for the Pre Birkie that was WAY too warm for the snow conditions.

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Re: Swix Cera FC2 is for wet -- bad in cold?

Postby JeffOYB » Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:18 am

I bought a range of Start Tar kick waxes because of their smell. And they were on sale. I have never found them to give any grip at all. A strange total nonfunctional line of waxes for me in our area. I think they were on sale for that reason! Maybe they dislike our humid Michigan snow? We ski in Lake Effect snow. And then some. Surrounded by water.

Local word, tho, is that Toko Red is the all around great bombproof kickwax. It seems to deliver in its listed range and then some. I recall it being listed for a wide range already. I haven't had it for a year or two, used mine up. No ski shop around and just haven't replaced yet. I have been getting by, but it's getting thin. I have various little pucks of kickwax. Time to restock!

Testing is a fun process. I've done it in detail before but not lately. It's fun discovering a wax that is better than what seemed to be good. Esp with kick wax: occasionally finding one that kicks great but doesn't interfere at all with glide is a marvel.

How about old waxes? Do they degrade? I keep doing things like grabbing what looks like an old can of Swix purple for purple conditions. It's maybe 40 yrs old! I did have a really old can of Swix Red work great one day this winter. I really didn't have much waxing trouble this winter.

As I go further north and ski in better tracks I notice that waxes tend to run closer to their printed range.

It might be that our downstate conditions are even more humid. Our trails are certainly more ad hoc. All self-skied in. No grooming. The way the trail impacts the skis and kickzones must be different than a smooth level trail. Highpoints would kind of 'ram' into the base as you glide. The grip surface would be uneven.

I do like having a bit of wax variety on hand. I'll test some diff things next time I'm at the shop up north.

More Toko Red...
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Re: Swix Cera FC2 is for wet -- bad in cold?

Postby Blah » Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:45 pm

Dude the Start Tar waxes ROCK!!

There were several National Champions on Start Tar kick wax this past January at US Nationals in Houghton, MI. I sold out of my entire inventory of Tar kickers there. It was also phenomenal at the 2014 Birkie.

Start makes kick waxes for snow type first. If you try to use them in the wrong snow type then they aren't going to be as effective.
Here's the rundown:

Terva or Tar - Falling snow or freshly falling snow. Absolutely lights on in new snow. Nothing beats it
Synthetic - Dry snow or for extra kick in new snow. Similar to Rode
RF - Racing Fluor- old humid snow
Oslo - Manmade snow, abrasive snow, glazing tracks. This wax is amazing!

Everyone should at least have Oslo and Terva kick wax in their wax box. I was with a former Wax Tech for the US Ski Team last week and he told me they use Start kick wax more than any other brand.

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Re: Swix Cera FC2 is for wet -- bad in cold?

Postby jt10000 » Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:01 pm

Thanks Blah for your info.

And I'll add that I love it when company reps are liberal with information, including about good stuff from other companies. It gives me a good impression of their company too.
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Re: Swix Cera FC2 is for wet -- bad in cold?

Postby JeffOYB » Fri Mar 20, 2015 7:07 am

OK, I'll keep trying my Starts. I do love their smell and set them out each season for that reason.

Maybe the diff pts of MI have generally diff kinds of snow.

I would think that downstate MI and far north UP of Houghton might be really diff.

It's interesting how diff areas, regions might "like" diff lines of wax.

Like, Start Terva might like fresh falling snow but maybe that kind of snow is quite diff b/w regions. Is that possible? Maybe even aspects of humidity are diff. ...Western downstate MI is really wet total lake effect snow. We live in mid-MI swampland. Our snow is diff from the W-side, though I can't say how. Lake Superior lake effect snow might be different yet. ...So possibly there's variety even w/in the "fresh falling" snow category.
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