Triceps Injury

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dcpattie
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Triceps Injury

Postby dcpattie » Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:58 am

I'm getting a numbness/pain in my lower right triceps (just above elbow) after about 15k of double poling on the rollerskis. Anyone else ever injure this muscle and what was your "road to recovery" like? I note my right triceps because I am very right side dominate.

Interestingly, I do not experience any pain when performing the double pole action on my Concept 2 skierg. I guess its because the action is smooth with zero poling stress.
Dave in Nordic Virginia

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Magnus Johansson
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Re: Triceps Injury

Postby Magnus Johansson » Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:38 am

Dave, have you tried shock absorbers like Staffanstaven or Exel's suspension tip?
http://www.staffanstaven.com/en/home.htm
http://www.exelsports.com/app/product/view/-/id/237

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dcpattie
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Re: Triceps Injury

Postby dcpattie » Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:55 am

Thanks Magnus. I've used the execl tips in the past but felt they didn't grip well. The shock absorption handles look interesting and I might try them. I'll be on vacation so perhaps all I need is about 1-week of rest? This just started out of the blue - I've done up to 2hr 20 minutes of DP in the past without any issues so I'm hoping this will pass.
Dave in Nordic Virginia

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dcpattie
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Re: Triceps Injury

Postby dcpattie » Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:11 pm

Magnus Johansson wrote:Dave, have you tried shock absorbers like Staffanstaven or Exel's suspension tip?
http://www.staffanstaven.com/en/home.htm
http://www.exelsports.com/app/product/view/-/id/237


I've used the excel suspension tip in the past and didn't care for them - too many "missed sticks", so I opted for the V2 suspension tips. These are much better but I'm still getting pain in the triceps - just above the elbow. I think I have a small bursa on the medial head of the triceps.

I going to give it a rest and come back in a couple weeks. I'm also going to try shorter poles (- 5mm).
Dave in Nordic Virginia

Michael_A
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Re: Triceps Injury

Postby Michael_A » Tue Oct 18, 2016 6:40 am

HI,

I have been through exactly the same thing. Am left handed and the issue was any left elbow. The soreness would go away after a week of not poling but returned pretty quickly if I poled too much.

The staffanstaven handles completely solved my problem. They are much better than the Excel tips; I have had no soreness since I started using them & have been able to increase my workout volume & intensity a lot. They also do have a more snow-like feel. I'm surprised more people don't use these ... the impact of thousands of pole plants on pavement can really do a number on the elbow joint. And from my experience these poles completely eliminate the issue.

As for "missed sticks", I think the shock absorbing tips or handles actually help the poles hold better; when my tips are sharp I don't have that problem at all.

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Re: Triceps Injury

Postby dcpattie » Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:15 am

Michael_A wrote:HI,

I have been through exactly the same thing. Am left handed and the issue was any left elbow. The soreness would go away after a week of not poling but returned pretty quickly if I poled too much.

The staffanstaven handles completely solved my problem. They are much better than the Excel tips; I have had no soreness since I started using them & have been able to increase my workout volume & intensity a lot. They also do have a more snow-like feel. I'm surprised more people don't use these ... the impact of thousands of pole plants on pavement can really do a number on the elbow joint. And from my experience these poles completely eliminate the issue.

As for "missed sticks", I think the shock absorbing tips or handles actually help the poles hold better; when my tips are sharp I don't have that problem at all.


Thanks Michael - this information is super helpful. Were they difficult to install? I actually emailed the company a few weeks ago and he pointed me to a USA retailer (Woodski) that sells the kit (not a finished pole). I noticed that in Europe you can purchase the poles with the kit already installed.

Also, what level of absorption did you buy (Elite - hard; Standard - medium; or Soft)?
Dave in Nordic Virginia

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Re: Triceps Injury

Postby Michael_A » Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:55 am

They are easy to install if you have done simple handwork things before. It is a lot easier to manage if you have (or can borrow) a heat gun (as opposed to a hair dryer) to melt the hot glue. Kind of satisfying to do the whole routine yourself and complete written directions come with the kit as well as videos on their website.

As for the poles, a more flexible pole will help too and I got a new brand (Barnett) that works fine and is inexpensive. Just buy the pole without the handles. A stiffer pole will transmit more of the impact up through your elbows.

Woodski is indeed the distributor and you will get your shipment from then. I got the medium springs but soft would probably be even better. No regrets about this purchase! I purchased an extra pair because roller ski a lot and don't want to take the chance of not having them. I started skiing at age 51 ... someone who has been skiing their entire life may have stronger joints/tendons but these things are a lifesaver for me. Like you, I have no issues with the Ski Erg so I'm sure it is the impact that is causing the trouble.

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Re: Triceps Injury

Postby skiffrace » Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:32 pm

I'm sure it is the impact that is causing the trouble.

What impact? Are you hitting the asphalt hard with the poles, like the snow-ski racers do? I'd imagine that's a wrong technique on rollerskis (?) If you plant the poles gently, and only then apply force hard, there is no impact.

Also, my first thought would be: "my triceps is the weak link - I need to make it stronger and more flexible through weight lifting and stretching"

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Re: Triceps Injury

Postby Michael_A » Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:22 am

skiffrace, you may be right that a more gentle pole plant would help; but I am trying to duplicate skiing as closely as possible. I am relatively new to skiing and with 8 months available to roller ski and 4 (at best) to ski I want to do everything I can roller skiing to reinforce the correct habits while on snow. As far as I can tell, good skiers use the exact same technique roller skiing – https://youtu.be/ztZN7Mk6apo.

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skiffrace
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Re: Triceps Injury

Postby skiffrace » Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:55 am

Well, you may be right as well, to a point. People in that video are racing, so all bets are off here.
If you look at the various videos of rollerskiers on Youtube, you see that people plant their poles with various degree of force, from gentle to hard.
Keep in mind that when skiing on snow you have to dig the pole hard into the snow to gain proper purchase.
On asphalt, if the tips of your poles are sharp, you don't need to smash them to the ground to get traction.
Replicating the snow technique is a valid point, but is it possible/practical?
I read somewhere one of the elite skiers (Northug? Hellner?) saying when they switch from roller-skiing to snow-skiing, it takes them weeks to re-learn proper snow habits. If they do that, then what we, Joes-Shmoes can do?
However, I will insist on my final point. Most people rollerski with standard (non-cushioned) poles, yet they don't get triceps pain.
This indicates your triceps/arms are weak, and you should aim to strengthen them first and foremost.

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dcpattie
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Re: Triceps Injury

Postby dcpattie » Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:57 am

skiffrace wrote:However, I will insist on my final point. Most people rollerski with standard (non-cushioned) poles, yet they don't get triceps pain.
This indicates your triceps/arms are weak, and you should aim to strengthen them first and foremost.


I spoke with the folks at Jenex about their V2 suspension tips before purchasing a set and - according to them - this injury is fairly common which is why they invested in the product. Makes sense.
Dave in Nordic Virginia

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Re: Triceps Injury

Postby Chris » Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:08 pm

skiffrace wrote:On asphalt, if the tips of your poles are sharp, you don't need to smash them to the ground to get traction.


This point is important, specially as the lower fall temps cause many road surfaces to become harder.

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Re: Triceps Injury

Postby Michael_A » Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:55 pm

Just did some reading on tennis elbow, golfer's elbow and it sounds like it is important to relax the hand at the end of each poling motion. Apparently if your muscles/tendons are always engaged gripping the pole it is a lot harder on the tendons of the elbow.

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Re: Triceps Injury

Postby skiffrace » Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:42 pm

Just did some reading on tennis elbow, golfer's elbow and it sounds like it is important to relax the hand at the end of each poling motion. Apparently if your muscles/tendons are always engaged gripping the pole it is a lot harder on the tendons of the elbow.

Hominidaes feet and knees had 10 million years to evolve their shock-absorbing mechanics, and that's why you may run your whole life with no major damage. Our hands and elbows did not undergo such an adaptation, and that's why we develop tennis elbows etc.

I spoke with the folks at Jenex about their V2 suspension tips before purchasing a set and - according to them - this injury is fairly common which is why they invested in the product. Makes sense.

More likely, the suspension tips and handles were developed to push the degenerative changes of "pole smashers" hands and elbows down the road a bit. As far as "tricep pain prevention", it sounds more like telling customer what he wants to hear.

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Re: Triceps Injury

Postby MN Hoser » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:14 pm

My technique on snow differs fairly significantly from rollerskis. On asphalt, I pretty much set up poles down and then pole (in the flats). Even doing that, it is easy to "light up" the elbows if you start doing a lot of 2 and 3 hr dp sessions. It's best of course to ease into it, but our Sunday rollerski is 3 hrs and we switch between skate and classic.

I'm not worried about learning bad technique because I figure dp'ing on rollerskis is to build the upperbody. Just swing the tips a little more forward than normal, set them down, and then power away. If you start slowing down (a bit uphill), kick double pole, and then stride the steeper stuff. Seems to work for me on long rolerskis. If you're doing intervals...well, all bets are off.

Jay


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