Demographics of various ski sectors?

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JeffOYB
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Demographics of various ski sectors?

Postby JeffOYB » Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:39 pm

Does the XC trade have a grasp of its market?

Does it know how many racers there are, how many "frequent casual skiers"? Tourers? Age group break-outs? Free-heel BC skiers? By region?

Does it share general info on how many pairs of the various categories of XC skis are sold each year? Trends?
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Re: Demographics of various ski sectors?

Postby Magnus Johansson » Sat Nov 19, 2016 12:17 pm

Interesting questions, Jeff.

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Re: Demographics of various ski sectors?

Postby Neuro » Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:02 am

All I know is that they must have missed the skin trend as Atomic Redster skin skis that I've been looking for have been sold out early two years in a row with not enough produced to fill the gap. The importer confirmed this.

And I guess with the skin ski trend there will be more casual skiers, as I know from friends and family one of the main reasons they ski less is not only the poor snow conditions, but they are tired of the ever changing waxing condition and the hassle and mess of klister etc.

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Re: Demographics of various ski sectors?

Postby JeffOYB » Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:04 pm

Neuro wrote:All I know is that they must have missed the skin trend as Atomic Redster skin skis that I've been looking for have been sold out early two years in a row with not enough produced to fill the gap. The importer confirmed this.

And I guess with the skin ski trend there will be more casual skiers, as I know from friends and family one of the main reasons they ski less is not only the poor snow conditions, but they are tired of the ever changing waxing condition and the hassle and mess of klister etc.


...And is the mohair/skin concept proving better than other nowax options for casuals? I'm really liking the old Chemicals I've been buying with the zero-type section that seems to work fine from, heck, 20-35F.

Atomic isn't the only "skin" maker, right? "Skin" means recessed mohair, right?
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Re: Demographics of various ski sectors?

Postby Neuro » Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:31 am

Not really sure how they compare to zeros, but even seasoned skiers are raving in articles about the mohair type. Seems all manufacturers are on it now, and even different type of skis (track, touring etc) are getting the hairs it seems.

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Re: Demographics of various ski sectors?

Postby Magnus Johansson » Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:13 pm

JeffOYB wrote:...And is the mohair/skin concept proving better than other nowax options for casuals?

Yes, I believe so.

JeffOYB wrote:I'm really liking the old Chemicals I've been buying with the zero-type section that seems to work fine from, heck, 20-35F.

Anders Berlin in Uppsala, Sweden uses mainly sanded grip zones with no wax or klister: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDQAOqYCziI

JeffOYB wrote:Atomic isn't the only "skin" maker, right? "Skin" means recessed mohair, right?

Here are our raw material providers: http://www.angoragoat.com/

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Re: Demographics of various ski sectors?

Postby Blah » Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:06 pm

JeffOYB wrote:Does the XC trade have a grasp of its market?

Does it know how many racers there are, how many "frequent casual skiers"? Tourers? Age group break-outs? Free-heel BC skiers? By region?

Does it share general info on how many pairs of the various categories of XC skis are sold each year? Trends?



Yes, you can see some of this data on the SIA website

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Re: Demographics of various ski sectors?

Postby JeffOYB » Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:46 pm

Magnus Johansson wrote:Anders Berlin in Uppsala, Sweden uses mainly sanded grip zones with no wax or klister: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDQAOqYCziI



OK, this catches my eye. I'm interested in all-round enthusiast skiing, not in elite race waxing.

So this guy is mostly using hairies? For all his general skiing? I clicked on the link and I just see a guy skiing along.

Does Uppsala SWE have mostly one kind of snow condition?

I've been enjoying my Blizzard Chemicals around here. They seem quite versatile. I'm told I can also grip-wax over the special mid-section then clean it off when I want to use the 'chemical' again. But I'm curious about what's really going on w these skis. They have us prep them w sandpaper beforehand then spray them w silicone. isn't this just the SOP for hairies? Maybe they're just a kind of long-use hairy skis. The rubbery section allows for hairies without loss of base material. ????

I'm really interested in good general solutions for rec skiers.

To me, fish-scale skis -- incl Crowns and Evo's, etc. -- make noise and are slow. I'd love to find a nowax vs that's quiet and faster and more versatile if possible. Doesn't have to be a race-winner.
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Re: Demographics of various ski sectors?

Postby Magnus Johansson » Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:07 pm

JeffOYB wrote:
Magnus Johansson wrote:Anders Berlin in Uppsala, Sweden uses mainly sanded grip zones with no wax or klister: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDQAOqYCziI



OK, this catches my eye. I'm interested in all-round enthusiast skiing, not in elite race waxing.

So this guy is mostly using hairies? For all his general skiing? I clicked on the link and I just see a guy skiing along.

Does Uppsala SWE have mostly one kind of snow condition?

He is mostly using hairies, for all his cross-country skiing, in practically all the different conditions that he meets. He emphasizes the simplicity and low cost of using no wax but instead mechanically tune the ski base material. The snow conditions of Uppsala are very varied.

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Re: Demographics of various ski sectors?

Postby JeffOYB » Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:50 am

So just to confirm: will hairies work as a decent nowax solution for rec skiers for a wide range of conditions?

When you say he tunes the base material -- do you mean stone-grinding? Kuzma? And is that for minimal function or is it for elite function? Like, should rec skiers be concerned about base tuning?

Is it standard process for hairies that you spray the hairy zone with silicone?

Does one make a hairy zone that's longer or shorter than a normal kickzone?

It would be frustrating if all this time hairies could be serving rec skiers well but they're being given loud/slow/bad fishscales instead...

I personally try to help fun-oriented skiers around here but most of the literature I encounter is meant for elites. I would like it if experts would share info more often when it relates to rec skiers. Like, something may not be the world's fastest but if a concept would help everyday fun skiers, let's share it!

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Re: Demographics of various ski sectors?

Postby Magnus Johansson » Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:23 pm

JeffOYB wrote:So just to confirm: will hairies work as a decent nowax solution for rec skiers for a wide range of conditions?

According to Anders, they will.

JeffOYB wrote:When you say he tunes the base material -- do you mean stone-grinding? Kuzma? And is that for minimal function or is it for elite function? Like, should rec skiers be concerned about base tuning?

The easiest for a recreational skier is getting a pair of skin skis and start using them as they are. In most cases that is good enough. When the glide zones get worn one can steel-scrape (with e.g. Kuzmin or Skimateria scrapers) and brush them. Stone-grinding is unnecessary since steel-scraping is often better.

JeffOYB wrote:Is it standard process for hairies that you spray the hairy zone with silicone?

No, only under certain conditions.

JeffOYB wrote:Does one make a hairy zone that's longer or shorter than a normal kickzone?

Just like with grip-wax zones this is adjusted to the conditions. But if you shorten the length of the grip zone you have to steel-scrape the areas that become glide zones.

JeffOYB wrote:It would be frustrating if all this time hairies could be serving rec skiers well but they're being given loud/slow/bad fishscales instead...

I believe there is great potential in hairies for recreational skiers.


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