Long distance racing, is it healthy? (article)

Stuff that doesnt fit anywhere else.

Moderator: Moderator Group

User avatar
Neuro
World Cup
Posts: 609
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:56 pm
Location: Oslo, Norway

Long distance racing, is it healthy? (article)

Postby Neuro » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:34 pm

Article is also about training in general and impact on the heart.

Original article in Norwegian

Article through Google Translate

Article refers to several studies and conclusion seems to be that hard training and tough races should only be done after gradually stepping up from low intensity training, otherwise there are health risks.

Seems hard physical exercise without enough rest will cause a state of inflammation, and too much of that result in chronic inflammation which then affects the heart.

Pat
xcskiforum 30K
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:37 am

Re: Long distance racing, is it healthy? (article)

Postby Pat » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:54 am

Seems like a sensible article and reviews what most of us know to alternate hard easy training and not to jump into some Level 5 effort if you haven't trained to that. Certainly as I get older I pay more attention to inflammation caused by a hard training day and make sure to recover. I also think that with a variety of exercise routines that helps to not over train and face those issues.
Well -- here's to having fun outdoors and doing it day after day.

Pat

MN Hoser
Ski Forum God
Posts: 1127
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:26 pm
Location: St. Paul, MN

Re: Long distance racing, is it healthy? (article)

Postby MN Hoser » Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:44 pm

That's how it started for me, probably 15 years ago. I'd ride all summer (maybe 3000 miles) and not race. I'd hit Aug and do intervals once or twice a week, and then in Sep, I'd do a 40 mile mt bike race and kill myself...with cramps starting at about 28 miles. I used to say my heart sounded like the old Alfa Romao (sp?) racing car that ran rough as hell at slow rpm and then smoothed out at high rpm.

Once you establish the pathway for afib, it progressively becomes easier to get into it and harder to get out. So even with a very slow build up this year, I was in afib. So looking back I'd change a number of things. I wouldn't drink any alcohol after races. A couple beers sitting out in the sun after a mt bike race was common. More recently, our group started drinking a beer or two after the Birkie, and then Mora added beer. I'd also try not to really eek out that last 1% in races (which is hard to not do). That used to be my specialty was to run my HR up to sky high (at least it felt that way). That's when people you're with say, "Hell with it."

If anyone suspects they have afib, I just ordered a Alivecor monitor that hooks to the phone. https://www.alivecor.com/ It's $100, but I found a 10% discount and in the past they've had a 25% discount.

Jay

User avatar
JeffOYB
Ski Forum God
Posts: 1391
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:44 pm
Location: Williamston, MI
Contact:

Re: Long distance racing, is it healthy? (article)

Postby JeffOYB » Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:59 pm

MN Hoser wrote:That's how it started for me, probably 15 years ago. I'd ride all summer (maybe 3000 miles) and not race. I'd hit Aug and do intervals once or twice a week, and then in Sep, I'd do a 40 mile mt bike race and kill myself...with cramps starting at about 28 miles.


But Jay this sounds like a gradual build-up. Or is it not?

I'm wondering what the latest info says for us Lifers out there. I've been doing a mix of hard and easy year round for 40 years.

I don't know what inflammation feels like. I'll look for that beer info in the articles.

My annual effort curve goes like: summer of mostly easy biking with one hard group ride a week. Some swimming, calisthenics and weights mixed in. Autumn is hard half-hour cyclocross outings daily w a few rollerskis. Winter is about 50 vigorous hour-long ski outings plus snow removal.

(HEAVENS BE PRAISED I JUST WAS GIVEN A VINTAGE ARIENS 32" SELF PROPELLED SNOW MONSTER NICKNAMED THE BEAST!!!)

I get tired about two times during CX season and 3 times during XC season. I get tired if I start adding in skate-skiing -- until I adapt to it after several outings.

I think I'm slacking off too much on the overall calisthenics and weights fitness in summer, fall going into winter. Losing power. So when I make step-ups in effort they catch up to me sooner.

I've kind of stopped running. Love it if fast, but it's hard on me now. I plan to re-include it via 1 mile outings on my yard trail. This will include timed attempts to defeat our resident teenager and her friends. They declare that I'm toast. We will see! Running seems great for aerobic plus leg muscle.
Jeff Potter
http://OutYourBackDoor.com
indie outdoor adventure, culture, heritage
...bikes, boats, skis, luggage, media & more!

MN Hoser
Ski Forum God
Posts: 1127
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:26 pm
Location: St. Paul, MN

Re: Long distance racing, is it healthy? (article)

Postby MN Hoser » Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:48 pm

It was good training, and I was in great shape, but there wasn't any:

-Group training rides
-Short races (15 mile mtb or 25-30 mile road)
-Mt biking (all my training was on the road with a few mt bike ride just to make sure the bike worked)

All that should be in the mix if you want to race hard for 2:40 - 2:50. Each year I'd shake my head because it seemed like the race was a shock to the system and I was punishing myself with a hard race only to place 130th.

I don't think the cardiologists KNOW what the connection is between afib and endurance athlete. They know is causes a lot of micro tears which produce chemical markers like a heart attack and create fibrosis. Athletes tend to have slightly enlarged hearts and enlarged hearts have a connection to afib. There's a lot of speculation, but I also think that cardiologists won't tell you straight away to quit racing. Exercise seems to have a J curve response where some is really good, but really a lot is somewhat bad.

I haven't read studies, but I've heard from a number of sources that stimulants are bad (for afib), and then there are a number of other things: alcohol, red wine, chocolate. Of course it depends on dose. So an alcoholic is different than a beer a day dude. For me is seems that stimulants (coffee) is much worse than alcohol, which is much worse than chocolate (which contains a stimulant). If you're normal routine day is a cup of coffee in the morning and a beer at night, there's no reason to change unless you're having problem with afib IMHO. I'm fairly tightly wound, so coffee has never been good for me, but the utility was hard to ignore. (BTW, I've been off caffeine pretty much anyway for a couple years.)

Procedure Friday.

Jay

makerr
xcskiforum 10K
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:07 pm

Re: Long distance racing, is it healthy? (article)

Postby makerr » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:42 pm

Have any of you folks been following the Velonews "Haywire Heart" saga? Technical editor Leonard Zinn has been living with and attempting to deal with his heart issues through various means, and has not had great success so far. I know that each individual has a different story to tell, but his is an interesting tale.
The most recent velonews fast talk podcast talks about all of this in depth, and they have also published a book about these electrical cardiac issues entitled "The Haywire Heart".

MN Hoser
Ski Forum God
Posts: 1127
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:26 pm
Location: St. Paul, MN

Re: Long distance racing, is it healthy? (article)

Postby MN Hoser » Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:19 pm

The podcast was good. (Thanks.) I was a bit surprised at the level of knowledge that Zinn has, but I guess if he wrote a book on it, I shouldn't be surprised. He's a friend of a friend, so I may get to meet him one day.

User avatar
jt10000
World Cup
Posts: 522
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:56 am
Location: New York City
Contact:

Re: Long distance racing, is it healthy? (article)

Postby jt10000 » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:30 pm

MN Hoser wrote:The podcast was good. (Thanks.) I was a bit surprised at the level of knowledge that Zinn has, but I guess if he wrote a book on it, I shouldn't be surprised. He's a friend of a friend, so I may get to meet him one day.
I met him at a ski race.

Hope your health situation improves Jay.

MN Hoser
Ski Forum God
Posts: 1127
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:26 pm
Location: St. Paul, MN

Re: Long distance racing, is it healthy? (article)

Postby MN Hoser » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:14 am

A follow up. Last Friday I had an ablation. It's called a pulmonary isolation ablation and the idea is to prevent electrical signals from the pulmonary veins from reaching the atrium, well right atria I believe. There are certainly risks, but the various things I heard made it sound pretty routine. They used heat to damage the cells enough in the veins to prevent electrical conduction, but not enough to kill the tissue. I've never been through general anesthesia, so the whole process was more of an insult to the body than I expected. Everything went fine, but I'm tired, have a sore throat from the intibation and a slight headache.

So as a friend says, I now have a new electrical conduction wiring in my heart. I may not have the same heart rates that I did in the past. So currently, my resting heart rate is a bit over 60, and before surgery, it was in the mid-40s. When I'm in shape and resting, I've had an ekg at 38. I'm probably running high because the body is under repair, but it'll be interesting to follow this.

Today's workout: A slow meander down the block.

Jay

User avatar
Burgesse
xcskiforum 30K
Posts: 131
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:12 am
Location: Int'l Falls, MN

Re: Long distance racing, is it healthy? (article)

Postby Burgesse » Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:37 am

Well, I hope your new wiring does the job, Jay. Thanks for the update. Best wishes from da nort.
Burgess

User avatar
JeffOYB
Ski Forum God
Posts: 1391
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:44 pm
Location: Williamston, MI
Contact:

Re: Long distance racing, is it healthy? (article)

Postby JeffOYB » Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:51 am

Good luck, Jay! ...I bet you'll recover fast and be back to fun soon.

Maybe the look of it will change a bit, who knows, but I bet it'll still be rewarding.
Jeff Potter
http://OutYourBackDoor.com
indie outdoor adventure, culture, heritage
...bikes, boats, skis, luggage, media & more!

User avatar
JeffOYB
Ski Forum God
Posts: 1391
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:44 pm
Location: Williamston, MI
Contact:

Re: Long distance racing, is it healthy? (article)

Postby JeffOYB » Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:53 am

I finally read that Norwegian translation article link.

Moderation... darn, maybe it is a thing to consider.

Prolly everyone is different. They're looking at stats and tendencies, which is good, but some of this relates to markers individuals can check for, it seems. So, for whatever reason, if someone is showing them it seems like they shd tone it down.

****

Maybe I should try to fall in love w an activity that does NOT involve going 110%. I mean, jeez, cyclocross?

Here's something funny: lately, I've been getting into Swing Dancing -- lindy hop, swing charleston, etc. ...Salsa, too! Very tricky slow learning curve for me. It reminds me VERY MUCH of the best of ski motions! ...Including telemark! It has a LOT of positives.

What if... I started doing weights and calisthenics for allround health/strength/fitness and set performance goals that way. Then do bike/paddle/ski just for fun and adventure. Throw a little dance in on top.

That's mostly what I do as it is. But that cyclocross... Well, the workouts are short. The races only 45 mins. I only do like 4 a season. I only do a couple ski races. I ski 50 times. Maybe going 110% a few times a year ain't so bad...
Jeff Potter
http://OutYourBackDoor.com
indie outdoor adventure, culture, heritage
...bikes, boats, skis, luggage, media & more!

MN Hoser
Ski Forum God
Posts: 1127
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:26 pm
Location: St. Paul, MN

Re: Long distance racing, is it healthy? (article)

Postby MN Hoser » Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:29 pm

First off, I'm still learning a lot about the heart and have a lot to learn.

When you start looking at a population of skiers, there's probably a few things that contribute to afib. It seems that getting in shape increasing vagal tone (and lowers HRs) and this promotes afib. (I think this is connected to my af since mine tends to start during sleep.) Exercise increases blood pressure another factor in af. But I think the researchers talk about afib in terms of a trigger and substrate. So in my case, they're hoping to get rid of the trigger (or maybe more correctly a trigger) by getting rid of electrical signals from the pulmonary veins. So the substrate can be "atrial remodeling" or a change in the left atrium. In athletes, the left atrium increases in size and it also ends up with fibrosis. Atheltes also age (which is another "risk" factor or maybe "remodeling").

Ok, I've probably made a fool of myself with inaccuracies, explicit or implied. (Grin.)

Jay

User avatar
Neuro
World Cup
Posts: 609
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:56 pm
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: Long distance racing, is it healthy? (article)

Postby Neuro » Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:41 am

Burgesse wrote:Well, I hope your new wiring does the job, Jay. Thanks for the update.

+1 Image
JeffOYB wrote:Maybe I should try to fall in love w an activity that does NOT involve going 110%.

I think I saw somewhere that racket sports were one of the best activites for the heart. Not too hard and with breaks.

MN Hoser
Ski Forum God
Posts: 1127
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:26 pm
Location: St. Paul, MN

Re: Long distance racing, is it healthy? (article)

Postby MN Hoser » Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:13 pm

Thanks. We'll see how things go. I went out for a very slow ski on Sat, and thing didn't feel quite right. I also had some arrythmia that evening, but we're only a week and a day after the procedure. We got a bunch of snow today, so I'll probably try to do something tonight just to get out.

Jay


Return to “General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest