How to promote rollerskiing?

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Neuro
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How to promote rollerskiing?

Postby Neuro » Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:02 am

It seems weird so few are rollerskiing, even in countries where XC is popular, so what could be done?

I think one of the reasons it's not more popular is that it's seen as too dangerous. All the time one hear of accidents, even among the pros.

I see in the classifieds rollerskis being sold with little or no use, so I think even for those who are positive and actually invest they will get scared to the point of giving up after a few tries.

So I suggest brakes and full mountainbike gear be part of the natural kit for rollerskiing and shown/mentioned as much as possible (so people don't think they are wusses for wearing it), with pros ideally using it too.

    1. Universal brakes: These attach to the shoe so will work with most skis:
    2. A full face mountainbike type helmet
    3. Knee- and elbow pads
    4. Hip pads (use a big shorts on top here)
With this kit one will feel much safer and can enjoy skiing much more. Technique will come faster too once the attention is not focused on not getting injured.

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Re: How to promote rollerskiing?

Postby dcpattie » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:46 am

I think universal brakes and a design where the wheels are low maintenance but can roll over anything without being hazardous. I like the Jenex RC models but hate pumping up the tires. Something with a big & wide wheel diameter but not pneumatic. Keep the overall design light.
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Re: How to promote rollerskiing?

Postby davidb » Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:06 pm

Roller skiing is not just dangerous, but expensive:

Skis $200
Bindings $100
Mounting $20
Boots $250
Poles $100
Tips $20
Helmet $50
Knee pads $20
Gloves 15
That's pushing $700!
If classic wheel sets are around $100, and seem to be required way too often. (I think I paid $320 for my classic skis, my estimate above assumes skate)

I disagree with you guys re: brakes. Walk downhill!

I recall one of the US women, Diggins maybe, talking about the thrill of 30 mph downhills. hope she realizes that a fall at that speed will result in a lot more than road rash and bruises.

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Re: How to promote rollerskiing?

Postby jt10000 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:46 am

Neuro wrote:2. A full face mountainbike type helmet
3. Knee- and elbow pads
4. Hip pads (use a big shorts on top here)

I don't want to do an activity where this amount of protection is recommended. I don't think most people do.

There is no way I am going to do an aerobic sport with that amount of equipment. Zero.

More generally, I have to ask about the point of this at all. Promoting roller skiing? Why? It's not weird that so few people roller ski. It's more dangerous than skiing for many reasons, and not as much fun. And there are alternative ways to exercise when there is no snow, such as running, cycling and hiking.

If someone likes roller skiing, fine. If someone ski races or really wants to improve their skiing, roller skiing can help. But other than those two cases, I don't see why anyone should be encouraged to roller ski.

Maybe if there were fat-bike style roller skis for use on soft dirt trails w/o armor I'd enjoy that. The issue for that, I guess, is at least as much the trails as the equipment. I had V2 aeros and they were not good even on hard, smooth dirt, and falling on hard smooth dirt is not fun, even if I'm not going to actually get hurt.

davidb wrote:hope she realizes that a fall at that speed will result in a lot more than road rash and bruises.

"May." Not "will."

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Re: How to promote rollerskiing?

Postby zzzz » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:54 am

I agree with John. Rollerskiing is necessary for higher level racers, and fine for others that enjoy it. I have ski raced for fun at a reasonably fast local level, but ski in snow only. I have even at times given up my main sport (running) for skiing only for up to 6 months a year, but won't rollerski. I tried rollerskiing only once, and it was a big NOPE! It probably didn't help that they were classic V2s from the '90s of questionable upkeep, and I had only one season of self taught skiing on snow at the time. If not rollerskiing meant not as good results, especially early races when the snow came late, so be it. And the tiny wheels can get stopped cold by rocks. I've heard of enough serious rollerskiing injuries by local elite skiers to be put off. My GF, a former NCAA skier hated it, thinking it was dangerous, and that rubbed off on me...

It's just a sketchy activity safety-wise. Saying this as someone who used to free solo rock climbs. I grew up road biking and wanting to be a pro cyclist, but with the distracted drivers of today, I haven't road biked much since the '90s, staying mostly on multiuse paths for my old bike commute. So, I would similarly limit rollerskiing to away-from-road paths. Easy win for other activities in comparison, like trail running and mountain biking. There were no brakes on the V2s that I tried back in 2000, but the ones that I see don't look like they can dissipate enough heat (minimal surface area, unlike bike rims or disc rotors) to really be safe on downhills.
Last edited by zzzz on Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How to promote rollerskiing?

Postby Neuro » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:06 am

jt10000 wrote:I don't want to do an activity where this amount of protection is recommended. I don't think most people do.

There is no way I am going to do an aerobic sport with that amount of equipment. Zero.


Why? Just something as simple as biking can lead to pretty serious injuries. I'm quite sure most of us have experienced getting hurt on a bike so can't see the big difference.

You surely use helmet already when rollerskiing and biking. It's just adding pads. I don't understand why that would be a deal braker. I don't use hip pads (yet), but it takes me 1 minute to put on elbow and knee pads, and makes me enjoy it more.

Brakes on rollerski shouldn't really be included as part of protective gear. It should really be obvious, like brakes on a bike.

And people do like sports that involves protective gear. How many millions do football, American football, baseball, skateboarding, alpine skiing, biking, mountain biking, skating, ice hockey, skating, martial arts, etc etc.

As for cost, biking is the same or more. A used rollerskiing set is not all that much.

Rollerskiing is using the whole body, biking, running and hiking doesn't involve all parts as much. It's also more co-ordination and balance training. Overall skiing is one of the best training there is and ought to be promoted IMO.

My point is about changing attitude. Before, bicycling was done without helmet and when it was introduced was met with equal resistance, but now accepted by all without question. In fact I bet a lot of pros wouldn't go out without now, and for sure it's the same for amateurs. On the ski slopes too. When I grew up there were no one using helmets. Now the majority does. Some even use back plates.
Last edited by Neuro on Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How to promote rollerskiing?

Postby zzzz » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:10 am

I've never had a serious injury road or mountain biking. Or any other sport for that matter to include climbing.

Also, not wanting to get into a '90s style flame war on helmets, but I generally don't wear one mountain biking. The way I ride (tame), I'm more likely to hit my head while snow skiing (against a tree perhaps, after being thrown by rutty iced up trail) or even trail running (I have a lot of strava downhill CRs). If I want to ride something sketchier than usual, then maybe I'll put on a helmet. But then I'm actually less safe with the helmet because I'm consciously choosing to do something less safe. I don't ride road, where I at times wore helmets.

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Re: How to promote rollerskiing?

Postby Pat » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:24 am

Well -- staying on the subject of promoting roller skiing... Rarely a time when I am roller skiing that the people that see me doing it don't say "hey that is way cool!" I think it can be a safe sport with reasonable risk management. I use the V2XLA9848 skis with speed reducers -- I also have a pair of old Skikes that I strictly use for double poling. Anyhow those V2s do very well on relatively smooth dirt paths and/or asphalt, and I have never had one of the wheels lock up due to a pebble. Myself I'm not looking to be out on some side road and cruising for miles -- I prefer uphill repeats or another type circuit. I think at lower speeds a skate helmet, gloves and long pants are decent protection. Discretion being the better part of valor there should be no hesitation of walking down a hill or around rough part of pavement or path.
But the question is how to promote roller skiing -- so maybe outside of being seen using them I don't know.

Pat

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Re: How to promote rollerskiing?

Postby jt10000 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:22 pm

Neuro wrote:
jt10000 wrote:I don't want to do an activity where this amount of protection is recommended. I don't think most people do.

There is no way I am going to do an aerobic sport with that amount of equipment. Zero.


Why?

I just don't want to wear that amount of armor stuff. I don't on my bike.

I'm not talking about safety - I'm talking about the message and comfort. No way will I do an aerobic sport with that equipment.

Neuro wrote:Just something as simple as biking can lead to pretty serious injuries. I'm quite sure most of us have experienced getting hurt on a bike so can't see the big difference.

I'm certain the odds of getting road rash or breaking bone out training on roller skis is far higher than out on a road bike. Much higher. So actually I do see a big difference. Certainly you can die doing either one, so the maximum disaster is the same, but the likelihood of injuries at all levels of severity is much higher roller skiing. I'm surprised you don't see that.

Neuro wrote:You surely use helmet already when rollerskiing and biking.

Not surely.

I very rarely roller ski - I stopped because I don't like falling, and was afraid of breaking wrists or elbows and of road rash. But I never wore a helmet - the odds of hitting my head hard enough to need one didn't seem worth it. But falling and hurting a wrist or getting a bunch of road rash? That seemed much too likley. And I'm not about to wear wrist guards and elbow pads in an aerobic sport.

If I was really serious about ski racing I'd probably start roller skiing again with a focus only on double poling and perhaps offset skating, which seemed pretty safe in comparison to one-skate and two-skate. Getting good weight shift with one-skate and two-sake always scared me on pavement. The amount of armor needed to make me not scared is beyond what I'd be comfortable wearing.

So instead I inline skate with ski poles and never use a helmet or pads of any kind. It seems quite a bit safer than roller skiing, apart from cars, and where I skate/ski there are few cars.

I wear a helmet *most* of the time on a bike, but not always. And I'd NEVER wear a full-face helmet unless I was doing some serious downhill racing.

Neuro wrote:football, American football, baseball, skateboarding, alpine skiing, biking, mountain biking, skating, ice hockey, skating, martial arts,

Most of the activities you mentioned are in cold weather or "combat" sports where it's normal to hit opponents hard. I don't do sports that involve intentionally hitting other people. Full face helmets? No no no in aerobic sport. Unless maybe you're doing hard core downhill ski racing.

But hockey? American football? Martial arts? You're using those fighting examples to help sell an aerobic sport? Wow. If I didn't know what rollerskiing was and someone was telling me it's safe with hockey-style pads and big helmets I'd say "No thank you, I'm not interested." That wouldn't make me think the sport is safer. On the contrary.

Neuro wrote: now accepted by all without question.

This is false.

I'm not about to debate helmets themselves, but it's obviously not true that it is accepted "by all without question." There are quite a few people who do dispute the importance of helmets and don't use them all the time, or even never use them except when required to.

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Re: How to promote rollerskiing?

Postby Neuro » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:06 pm

jt10000 wrote:I'm certain the odds of getting road rash or breaking bone out training on roller skis is far higher than out on a road bike.

It's ironic you'd say that considering what happened to the founder of this site. The chance of severe injury is much greater on a bike than rollerskis. The speed is greater and you are more surrounded by other traffic.

jt10000 wrote:Most of the activities you mentioned are in cold weather or "combat" sports where it's normal to hit opponents hard.

No they really aren't, and I'm not "using those examples to help sell an aerobic sport". I'm disputing your point that people won't be interested in activities that involve putting on protective gear.

As for why full face helmet would be a no-no on rollerskiing you have no real explanation for, and being totally against pads for the comfort issue is also weird when they are hardly uncomfortable. The knee and elbow pads I hardly notice at all.

In fact the whole premise of not wanting safety gear is weird when you admit to stopping rollerskiing due to the dangers of getting hurt. It's really not clear what you're arguing against here other than you think it's uncool with protective gear to go rollerskiing, which really just underscores my original and main point here that there ought to be a shift in consciousness of what rollerskiing is about.

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Re: How to promote rollerskiing?

Postby jt10000 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:05 am

Neuro wrote:you think it's uncool with protective gear to go rollerskiing,

You're putting words in my mouth. I never said ANYTHING close to "uncool".

Neuro wrote:The chance of severe injury is much greater on a bike than rollerskis. The speed is greater and you are more surrounded by other traffic.

You're saying rollerskiing is inherently done without cars and cycling is? Apples to oranges.

Overall your comments are remarkable: you're in effect asking me if I like something, hearing me say "No" and then telling me "You're wrong."

You're like Jeff Potter.

Here's some advice: if lots of people don't like something, and you think it would be more popular if they just did it your way which is so easy but they just don't do, odds are that YOU are "weird" (to use a word you keep throwing out). Not them.

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Re: How to promote rollerskiing?

Postby Neuro » Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:01 am

jt10000 wrote:You're putting words in my mouth. I never said ANYTHING close to "uncool".

Yes you did. You said it was about "the message". Something not relating to safety.

jt10000 wrote:Overall your comments are remarkable: you're in effect asking me if I like something, hearing me say "No" and then telling me "You're wrong."

No, I never asked if you like anything. I asked the forum what could be done to make rollerskiing more popular and suggested making protective gear more known and acceptable. You contributed nothing except to presumptuously speak for others that they just don't like protective gear and when asked why, made false claims and threw up a fuss for no good reason when this is supposed to be a discussion forum.

jt10000 wrote:You're like Jeff Potter.
Here's some advice: if lots of people don't like something, and you think it would be more popular if they just did it your way which is so easy but they just don't do, odds are that YOU are "weird" (to use a word you keep throwing out). Not them.

And my advice to you is not to presume to know what others like or will do when it comes to safety gear when rollerskiing. It could well be that the lack of brake usage is simply because people don't know about brakes, you have no way of knowing. And it could also be that people might want to use more safety gear like pads, but don't because others aren't using and they don't want to look like a wuss. Again you can't say for certain what guides this so making out as if you do is just weird.

Saying I'm weird, making out that this about "my way" and comparing me to other users with a negative connotation is just silly and rude but then turning a friendly discussion about skiing into a confrontation with an aggressive and personal tone seems to be a theme of yours.

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Re: How to promote rollerskiing?

Postby jt10000 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:15 am

Neuro wrote: with an aggressive and personal tone seems to be a theme of yours.

I'd rather be directly aggressive than play the sort of passive/aggressive games you do. So thanks for that comment.

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Re: How to promote rollerskiing?

Postby makerr » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:27 am

And now back to our regular program!
I've been roller skiing for at least 20 years and recognize the inherent risks. I think that is why I shy away from promoting roller skiing to anyone who asks me about it. I live in a rural area where I have access to good roads with light traffic. The ideal situation is of course a dedicated roller ski track where we don't have to worry about interaction with cars. I use plain old pursuit roller skis with the slowest wheels so that I don't have to worry too much about high speeds yet can still maintain good form while 1-skating. I stay mostly on the flats so don't have to worry too much about braking.
So I think for me at least, I'd be more inclined to promote rollerskiing if I had access to closed roads or a dedicated track and slow skis, so that it was a less risky activity
Just my two cents!

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Re: How to promote rollerskiing?

Postby JeffOYB » Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:20 pm

(JT being an idiot as usual. Jeez.)

I see course selection as being key to RS. I've done it for decades on a boring circuit w/o any fast traffic.

I could easily see some pro as being smart and no bother. I think ppl are used to gearing up these days. Helmet knee elbow hip -- no big deal. I don't see full-face, tho. Also, for me I wear pro based on how I tend to crash. Conditions specific.

Maybe it has more potential for fun. But I'd think you'd always want to scout and select for course condition factors.

The brakes seem helpful, but ppl who live in big hills seem naturally leery. ...As probably also w rollerblades. I used to be able to brake hard w rollerblades, wearing out a cheap, simple brake pad on every other outing. But they aren't real brakes. They have trails/parks where they are well suited, but they also seem smart to scout ahead of time.
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