Saw a sad sight skiing today

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Greggb
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Saw a sad sight skiing today

Postby Greggb » Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:06 pm

Was out skiing this morning and approached a deer standing on the side of the trail. As I got closer I could see the poor animal nearly dead from starvation. I skied within touching distance she didnt move. Very bloated and wobbly. I tried breaking some saplings down for her to eat the buds off but I think she was too far gone. She hopped off the trail and nearly went up to her neck in the deep snow. I wasnt sure she would be able to even move again, but she walked off and stood a few yards away. I went back 2 hours later and she was still standing in the same spot.

Its one of the saddest things you'll ever see. Nature is very cruel and to those opposed to hunting, I can tell you no deer has ever suffered as much to a hunters bullet or arrow than a starving deer will. At least when a hunter harvests a deer, the animal is used to sustain life, when it dies of starvation, its a complete waste.

As much all the snow makes for great skiing, it also makes it very difficult for animals to survive in such conditions. Add numerous days of -20F and it spells disaster for deer.
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Biffbradford
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Postby Biffbradford » Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:46 am

Nature can be cruel ... to people too. It's the way life is. Some you can save, some you can't ... you tried to help, so feel good about that.

Edit: It's not a complete waste ... it's the cycle of life, like it or not. I just remembered ... as I was driving home from Hayward yesterday, I saw a deer on the side of the road, obviously hit by a car, quite dead ... but a bald eagle was having his dinner and I got to see him ... my first!

Bad for the deer ... good for the eagle ... good for me! :D
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Postby Cloxxki » Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:35 am

My heart would break too upon such a sighting. I, too, would have tried to (against nature) feed the poor thing.

Yet, man is more cruel. And the only reason deers have fewer friends to play with than before. Less vegetation to feed from in our woods, a greater stance at stanvation. Unstable climates due to our relentless CO2 bombings. lack of natural enimies (we killed those) at times make populations explode.
Predators will first catch weak animals, and your deer would have been first choice. But where were the wolves and bears when this poor animal went beyond weak?

Hunters come up with too many excuses to shoot down perfectly fine wildlife, it makes me sick. Go and divide all hunters-at-heart between teams A and B, and sort out who's best by yourself in a large desert. And I suppose hunting is much more accepted in the US as guns can be had at the supermarket, and a scholar without one, is most likely to be shot himself.

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Postby kuan » Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:17 am

Nothing to keep you from dragging out a bag of deer pellets or spent grain leftover from making beer. :D

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Postby lkm » Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:48 pm

Yet, man is more cruel.


Nature is much more cruel than humans. That's not necessarily bad, it is natural, but something we need to accept. The method in which a wolf feeds on deer is downright sickening. Unlike humans, wolves do not have emotions. They are not capable of caring whether or not their prey suffers, their only motivation is their hunger. They typically eat the prey animal while it is still alive, biting off pieces of the hind quarter as the animal suffers. A responsible human hunter would never want to put an animal through this type of suffering.

Less vegetation to feed from in our woods, a greater stance at stanvation


Actually, human involvement has made the environment much better for whitetailed deer. Logging creates new growth and a recent clearcut is excellent deer habitat. Agriculture obviously provides a large food source for deer. The only areas which typically see large-scale starvation is old growth, mature forest which is actually poor deer habitat. Prior to European settlement, new growth was more commonly initiated by fires and other natural clearings, similar to a clearcut today.

Unstable climates due to our relentless CO2 bombings.


As a skier, I do not like a warmer climate (perhaps selfishly). But it is actually of a benefit to many species, including whitetailed deer. Warmer temperatures and more plant food (CO2) mean more vegetation for wildlife. It means less snow depth, which leads to starvation.

And the only reason deers have fewer friends to play with than before.


Actually, the deer population across the continent is at nearly record levels. There are far more deer now then existed prior to the European settlement of the continent.

Here's a group you might be interested in joining. http://www.peta.org/

Fortunately, you are correct that most people in the U.S. of all political affiliations disagree with your viewpoints. Without hunters, our environment would be in rough shape since it is mostly hunters who care about conservation. In my experiences, most non-hunters do not care about wildlife or nature and would rather sit at home playing video games and watching TV than spending time outdoors. A few communities, such as XC skiers, are an exception to this, but they are easily in the minority.

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Postby fishskicanoe » Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:25 pm

Sorry, Nature isn't cruel. You need to have a free will to be cruel, to be able to choose between being beneficent or malignant. Nature has no ability to choose.

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Postby Camilo » Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:28 pm

Cloxxki wrote:My heart would break too upon such a sighting. I, too, would have tried to (against nature) feed the poor thing.

Yet, man is more cruel. And the only reason deers have fewer friends to play with than before. Less vegetation to feed from in our woods, a greater stance at stanvation. Unstable climates due to our relentless CO2 bombings. lack of natural enimies (we killed those) at times make populations explode.
Predators will first catch weak animals, and your deer would have been first choice. But where were the wolves and bears when this poor animal went beyond weak?
.


Deer don't "play with their friends". That's a ridiculous and silly romantic idea.

Man - at least in North America - has certainly not caused any starvation for white tail deer. They are overly abundant because they adapt very well to suburban sprawl. The deer in question was probably sick (maybe starving, maybe not) because of weather and/or snow depth. Nothing about man there.

I totally agree with you about predators - we have killed way too many of them, and deer populations have to be balanced by the only remaining effective predator (in many places): hunters harvesting venison.

My first thought when I read the story is I hope a wolf or bear can take the deer and eat it. Or if it dies on it's own, I hope its carcass can feed some other carnivorous critters.

Cloxxki wrote:Hunters come up with too many excuses to shoot down perfectly fine wildlife, it makes me sick. Go and divide all hunters-at-heart between teams A and B, and sort out who's best by yourself in a large desert. And I suppose hunting is much more accepted in the US as guns can be had at the supermarket, and a scholar without one, is most likely to be shot himself.


Total bullshit. You obviously know no hunters and have never hunted. You know nothing about guns and hunting to make such a ridiculous, biased statement. You should write about something you know about.

Hunting animals is a great pass time when done with skill and ethics, and eating wild meat is delicious, healthy and nutritious.

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Postby Greggb » Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:30 pm

Ok, guys lets keep it real. This thread isnt a discussion about whether you are a hunter or not. Take that discussion to "Way off Topic"

I am a hunter and its how I feed my family. I refuse to buy meat at a store, because its pure swill. However, I am respectful to those who arent hunters and hunting is not as common in Europe as it is here in the states.
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