Acceptable camber mismatch between skis?

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midlife
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Acceptable camber mismatch between skis?

Postby midlife » Sat Feb 07, 2015 9:02 pm

I bought some Fischer skate skis assuming I was purchasing a quality Austrian product, however that has not been the case. What I received was actually made in Ukraine and are in my opinion poor quality. Graphics are off between skis, NIS plates seem out of spec, and then there is the 2mm difference in unweighted height between skis. I ordered these online - I know should go to a good store, but there are no good stores that can be trusted within hours of driving time (and then no guarantee they'll actually have my size). Anyway I put 20kg on each ski and found that the front contact point was very close between the two but the rear varies by 2 3/4" (7cm). Is this normal? What is acceptable for a decent quality ski?

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nxski
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Re: Acceptable camber mismatch between skis?

Postby nxski » Sun Feb 08, 2015 4:31 pm

Even when ordering online, you can find a place that will camber test for you. Do you know if this was done? What model of ski do you have? Fischer should be making good quality skis regardless of where they're manufactured, but their lower end skis are not built to the same standards as their higher end skis.
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Re: Acceptable camber mismatch between skis?

Postby midlife » Sun Feb 08, 2015 5:17 pm

They are CRS skate, 192 cm. Actually I found a rolled up Fischer sticker in the cellophane they came in that I was able to unroll - said "ski flex in kilograms" and then had 90 written on it. Seems OK to me as I weigh in at 87-88 kg. I have also since noticed that the ski with the higher camber height also doesn't sit flat like the other ski - has a slight twist in it from tip to tail. I may very well be getting too picky, but I had felt safe purchasing Fischer online and now I don't.

Re getting camber measured - a side note on ski shops in VT. One of the higher rated ski shops in the state is about 45 minutes from here. Back in my younger days they mounted bindings on my skis with one crooked (seriously crooked) and wouldn't make good on it - told me that it was common and not to worry about it. Skip forward many (many) years and my daughter went there for some replacement pole baskets a few weeks ago. They tried selling her baskets for a 9mm pole-end when she specifically asked for the model they had on their website for 11mm pole-end. Guy repeatedly told her the 9mm was the same thing and would work fine. Fortunately she called me which prompted the counter guy to ask someone else who got her the correct baskets. I then go to install the baskets for her and find that they had been returned at least once and one was full of glue that I had to dig out of it. Having been out of the skiing scene for so long I don't know which shops and who to trust to actually know what they're doing.

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Re: Acceptable camber mismatch between skis?

Postby nxski » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:26 pm

That does sound like a quality issue. If you got a great deal on the skis, the store you bought from might have been selling seconds without advertising that. Fresh Air Experience used to be in the business of doing that. There are very few good cross-country shops around, so I would look for one that has been in business a long time and that is a Fischer Racing Centre. Then phone the company and ask if they camber test in house (you can never trust the manufacturer's ratings). If the staff are helpful and seem knowledgeable and you can check all those boxes, you could order and pay over the phone and have them shipped to you without having to worry about quality. They should stand behind the product they sell as well.
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Re: Acceptable camber mismatch between skis?

Postby midlife » Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:09 am

Thought I would follow up and also say thanks for the responses. I tried contacting Fischer Sports directly inquiring about the difference in camber height and if they have sales channels that sell seconds, but got no reply.

I did find a youtube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIx0qsh ... e=youtu.be) showing the use of Fischer's test board (starts at about 4:10 for skate) so I tried to mimic that using a 0.010" (0.25mm) thick feeler gauge. That was my best guess at thickness as I don't know the thickness of the sliding plate that Fischer uses. My results were:

Residual Tension:
40, -30 (optimal in cm.)
42, -21.5 (actual)

Secondary Tension:
32, -20 (optimal in cm.)
38, -18 (actual)

Camber Pressure:
20, -10 (optimal in cm.)
30, -8 (actual)

All measurements were taken with bindings on the skis and me with my boots on and latched in. For the most part they seemed within the acceptable ranges given in the video, and all the front points and all but one of the rear points were very, very close to each other between skis - there was about a cm difference in the rear residual tension measurement between skis. The one thing I noticed is the camber pocket (correct terminology?) seems to be forward of what is expected. I'm wondering if I should move the bindings forward of the balance point to compensate for this.

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Re: Acceptable camber mismatch between skis?

Postby nxski » Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:14 pm

midlife wrote:The one thing I noticed is the camber pocket (correct terminology?) seems to be forward of what is expected. I'm wondering if I should move the bindings forward of the balance point to compensate for this.


The online information might be a bit older (given that they reference their board, I would assume it is). Fischer has moved their pocket further forward in recent years.

Do they have an FA value? You could check that to see if they were sold correctly based on FA.
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Re: Acceptable camber mismatch between skis?

Postby midlife » Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:24 pm

I still have the barcode sticker and it does say "FA: 90" on it - is that the flex? If it is, based on what I've found online the skis should be too soft for me given my weight (87ish kg), but based on the measurements I took they seem plenty stiff. I have tried skiing on them and they seemed OK - stability seemed good (no epic crashes) but i know my technique is poor so hard to tell what is the ski and what is me (ambiguity I was hoping to avoid). My daughter said my form looked pretty good, but she's still young enough to not want to hurt my feelings :) My goal is to replace 10-15lb lard with 3-4lb beef, so thinking these will be OK as I gain some technique. Am I way off base?

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Re: Acceptable camber mismatch between skis?

Postby osloskier » Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:51 pm

I just checked two pairs of Nanosonics and one pair of "Made in Austria" RCS.

My favorite Nanosonic classic skis were absolutely identical in height, and so were the RCSs. My Nanosonic skate skis differed by about 2 mm in unloaded camber height. Both of the RCS skis were very slightly twisted, by about 1 mm. All four Madshus skis were straight.

If your skis are twisted to such an extent that it affects pressure beneath the ski, that might affect glide. I don't think unloaded camber height difference matters as long as the grip zones are approximately the same. The grip zones of my Nanosonics differ by about 2 cm.

*edit* These are skate skis, so no grip zone. Still, the idea is the same.
Last edited by osloskier on Fri Feb 13, 2015 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Acceptable camber mismatch between skis?

Postby nxski » Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:41 pm

Your skis would be perfect for someone who is 165lbs. At 190lbs, you will find the skis to be a bit soft. Since you're starting out, it will be difficult to tell because you don't have skis to compare to, but they will definitely be slowing you down. If the goal is to get a good work-out, they aren't soft enough to affect your control, so I wouldn't worry.
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Re: Acceptable camber mismatch between skis?

Postby midlife » Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:57 pm

Thanks, guys. I had a longer response typed out earlier but it didn't submit for some reason.

I did finally get a response from Fischer today, a week after I contacted them. In the email the skis are referred to based on their "price level" a couple times so the short of it is I got what I paid for as far as they are concerned.

If I'm able to hit my target weight the flex rating will be around 110% of my body weight so I think I'll be fine. I have no intentions of racing, and if I did I'd get something lighter anyway.


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