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Any good combi ski?

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:10 am
by JeffOYB
Does a good combi ski exist or has such a thing ever existed?

Combi these days seems to be the Pursuit which uses same boots but diff skis and poles.

What about a true combi? Where you can skate some then also have kickwax on the skis and stride some. Or does the needed flex and the friction of the kickwax just wreck everything.

Any way to blend the needed flex profiles in a single ski?

I recall reading that even now a classic ski should be tested in soft snow skating conditions -- a longer ski with, I'm guessing, a soft tip might be fast for skating. Now add a bit of kickwax -- can we now stride w/o ruining the skate-glide?

I've had classic skis that were actually waxed nicely so they kicked great yet glided in tracks as if they had no kickwax. But I suppose if I tried to skate off of them the kickwax would engage...

I suppose one might want adjusting poles. Those wouldn't be so tough to make. (I just saw a pair of Leki's for sale.) But if poles did NOT adjust which way would you want to go for poles? Are short classic poles more tolerable for skating than long poles are tolerable for classic?

Re: Any good combi ski?

Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:32 am
by Magnus Johansson
JeffOYB wrote:Does a good combi ski exist or has such a thing ever existed?

I suspect the answer is no in both cases.

Re: Any good combi ski?

Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:43 pm
by zzzz
Tim Kelley suggests Fischer RCR Vasa Classics/SCS Classics or equivalent from other brands, 5 cm shorter than normal classics and ski poles between skate and classic length. It's not what he'd use racing short races on groomed track, but plenty good enough for fun on his long (often 30-60 mile) day trips. I'm sure he's still faster than you and me on them.

http://crust.outlookalaska.com/Gear/

Re: Any good combi ski?

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:40 am
by Magnus Johansson
Magnus Johansson wrote:
JeffOYB wrote:Does a good combi ski exist or has such a thing ever existed?

I suspect the answer is no in both cases.

Fischer actually makes a combi ski, the SC Combi. Pioneer Midwest has it for sale: https://www.pioneermidwest.com/fischer- ... combi.html

Re: Any good combi ski?

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:44 am
by dcpattie
On most classic skis do you apply grip wax (or are they all fishscale)?

I wonder if its possible to design a "skin" combo ski?

Re: Any good combi ski?

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:34 am
by Magnus Johansson
dcpattie wrote:On most classic skis do you apply grip wax (or are they all fishscale)?

I wonder if its possible to design a "skin" combo ski?

I don't know what is most common nowadays. 30 years ago it was almost only grip wax skis. Then came fish scales, and now the latest years skin skis. In competitions it is still almost exclusively grip wax skis, but overall I believe fish scales and skins constitute a really big part of the total ski fleet.

A skin combo ski is probably very difficult to design since the skin will act like a brake or speed reducer and will get extensive wear with the skating technique.

Re: Any good combi ski?

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:46 am
by Sea&Xc
A Combi ski will be skiable but it won't be a good skate ski nor a good classic ski. As mentioned above Fischer does sell the SC Combi, their lowest end construction. How many variations of Skate and Classic does Fischer sell? A lot, 7 in the US, more in EU. If Combi was a solid solution they would have more options.

Performance Classic skis should be flexed at 50-60% body weight to allow proper kick and glide. Skin and Klister skis will be on the high end of that range. Skate skis are flexed at 115-130% body weight, twice as stiff as classic. A Combi can be considered a stiff Classic ski as it isn't as efficient to skate on for any duration.

Combi can be done for juniors since difference in the ski flex isn't as wide as a gap. Once you get over 90 lbs, Combi doesn't make sense unless it's the only option from a budget standpoint for new junior racers.

Now add in the fact that you have to scrape off kickwax in order to skate and rewax when you want to classic and Combi makes even less sense.

Combi Boots YES, Combi skis NO all because you need very different flex characteristics between the disciplines.