Skin skis general discussion

Skis, Boots and Pole Reviews and Discussion

Moderator: Moderator Group

User avatar
Neuro
World Cup
Posts: 646
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:56 pm
Location: Oslo, Norway

Skin skis general discussion

Postby Neuro » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:02 pm

There are threads about selection and maintenance, but how about one for anything else.

In particular I want to compare notes on grip. I've had two skin skis now (racing skis), and grip has been very disappointing with both.

The first skis were too stiff for me, but the ones I have now should be exactly right, yet still I have to herringbone when others with wax are going straight up and overall the grip is poor. (The skis are new and only been tried twice, on fresh -4 C snow)

What's your experience?
Last edited by Neuro on Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Neuro
World Cup
Posts: 646
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:56 pm
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: Skin skis general discussion

Postby Neuro » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:04 pm

I could add as a general observation that anyone doubtful about skin skis and glide should know the glide is excellent. At least racing skis are.

User avatar
Neuro
World Cup
Posts: 646
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:56 pm
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: Skin skis general discussion

Postby Neuro » Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:03 pm

Another observation is that skins so far have been mohair (goat hair), but the latest Fischer have a mix of mohair and nylon. (this ski a clear winner in a test recently, and even that's mostly to do with the ski itself, it's still interesting in that it shows nylon is not only for durability, performance as well).

Triarii
xcskiforum 10K
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:45 am

Re: Skin skis general discussion

Postby Triarii » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:49 am

Could you post a summary of that test? For us without access.

I mostly skate so I'm not that good a judging classic skis, but I've skied a few models. Did a lot of last year on R-skins which I have swapped for a pair of R-skin Race this year. Also had a pair of Atomic Redster Skintec and I've tried Fischer Skin Team.
The old R-skins were slightly soft and had perfect grip for everything except very icy conditions. Almost always better grip than "everyone" else, but with poor glide.
The Atomics were quite stiff and were a lot more demanding, I did not like this model as they are very heavy and with a soft tip, but these are the only skin skis I've had that felt fast. The Fischers were better, but I prefer the feel of the Rossignols which are very fun skis.

My conclusions is that it is very easy to get good grip with a Skin ski, but very difficult to get a great pair of skis. You just need to sacrifice some glide and the ski will be okay, but without possibility to adjust the wax they simply need to be perfect. A skin ski that is too stiff is very frustrating. I don't have the technique or physique to ski such a very stiff ski, this means that I need a softer ski and then band of what is a good ski gets even narrower.

User avatar
Montana
World Cup
Posts: 759
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:13 am
Location: Choteau, Montana
Contact:

Re: Skin skis general discussion

Postby Montana » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:28 am

A question from Neuro in the Skin Ski maintenance thread.

Neuro wrote:Slightly OT and maybe more for this thread, but what's your take on grip generally?

I have found the Atomic Skintec Redsters to have plenty of grip. They were accurately selected for my body weight. My only complaint might be they drag a little when skating corners. But then I only use them as a training ski in difficult waxing conditions. The Skintecs came with two grip sections that are replaceable. One has two smaller strips and the second, which supposedly provides more grip, has a larger skin. I say "supposedly" because I have never used that larger skin. Never felt the need for more grip.

One example was last year when I attended a classic ski clinic. If I was out skiing on my own during the clinic time I would have used something like Swix VR 45 for grip. But in the clinic where there is a certain amount of standing around and with the fresh snow, everyone's skis tended to ice up. The skintecs did not. They gripped very well and my glide was as good as anyone's.
39th consecutive Birkie in 2019!
Ralph Thornton, Ear Mountain Photography

User avatar
Neuro
World Cup
Posts: 646
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:56 pm
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: Skin skis general discussion

Postby Neuro » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:01 pm

Thanks guys, very useful info.

Unfortunately I don't have access to the Norwegian daily Dagbladet for the latest skin ski test, but the headline is that the winner Fischer is in a class of its own.

Can add that the grip of my new skin skis (Salomon Equipe RC Skin 16/17) that was not ideal, was much better today. Don't know if it was the warmer temperatures (-1 C) or that they need to be 'run in' somewhat?

Will also say again the glide is tremendous. I will go the same route with my skate skis soon to compare, but I bet it won't be far off. Certainly feels as good as any glide I've experienced.

Triarii
xcskiforum 10K
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:45 am

Re: Skin skis general discussion

Postby Triarii » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:10 am

Okay, hard to draw any conclusions without from the picture it looks like Fischer Twin Skin Pro, Rossignol R-skin sport, a Salomon model and a Madshus model. The Madshus model probably being Terrasonic or maybe even Ultrasonic?
So low end-ish. Maybe the Fischers are good, but they are not cheaper than regular R-skin (at least in Norway) so quite a weird comparison. I believe the R-skin should be a much better ski than the sport.

It is worth mentioning the tests done by xc-ski.de, which are readable with Google Translate (https://www.xc-ski.de/material/langlaufski-test/).

Have you experimented with binding position? It makes quite a difference for the grip if you move forward. The Turnamic bindings are absolutely brilliant in this regard, where the Rottafellas are kinda of hard to move with frozen fingers, especially those who need the keys. I lubricate the NIS rails with silicone oil to reduce the friction (the same oil is an excellent anti-icing spray for the skins).
I've heard that the skin skis need to be run in to glide optimally but not to grip.

User avatar
Neuro
World Cup
Posts: 646
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:56 pm
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: Skin skis general discussion

Postby Neuro » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:19 am

Right you are with the Dagbladet test, it's not the top range, and unfair to have the Fischers there. I just saw the headline. Seems the journalists presented the skis to the testers. The xc-ski.de test looks much more relevant.

I tried to put the binding forward without much effect, but it only goes one click forward from the balance point which is not much. I'm looking to get the Rottefella Move System when it comes out as that has a bigger range, but still no sign of it in the shops.

Blah
xcskiforum 40K
Posts: 400
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:43 am

Re: Skin skis general discussion

Postby Blah » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:04 pm

I've skied every skin ski available in a large variety of flexes and Fischer by far has the worst skin skis out there. I have yet to find a Fischer flex that is not draggy. I think this is because the skin pattern is too long by being offset. For any other brand if you pick a correctly flexed skis they are very good. Rossignol, Madshus and Salomon all have very good mid to high level skin skis when correctly flexed.

User avatar
Neuro
World Cup
Posts: 646
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:56 pm
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: Skin skis general discussion

Postby Neuro » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:33 am

Yes, properly selected skis (for weight and style of skiing (walking or 'running')), seems really to be the key for skin skis, but hitting the skins with some water repelling material is a good idea for long and wet trips judging from 2016 Birkie where many lost kick when the skins got saturated (soaking wet) and tracks were icy, see here:

testimonies: http://gearwest.com/blog/reviews-skin-s ... he-birkie/

summary: http://gearwest.com/blog/skin-skis-at-the-2016-birkie/

User avatar
Neuro
World Cup
Posts: 646
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:56 pm
Location: Oslo, Norway

Re: Skin skis general discussion

Postby Neuro » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:43 am

The other day we had snow that was wet(ish) but freezing on the ground, and people were littered along the track scraping ice and stuck snow from their skis, and there was I with the (unprepared) skins with hardly any issues. These things are great. I will put some silicon spray or a skin product on to make them even better.


Return to “XC Ski Gear Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests