Non-race non-report

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jt10000
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Non-race non-report

Postby jt10000 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:42 pm

Due to some good family commitments (new baby) I can't travel to races this winter. So instead I live vicariously through friends.

The guy I ski with and travel to races with the most is "KG" - he's very thrifty and very fit with good balance. Over the years we've been roughly similar "speed" (such as two guys from New York City who don't get on snow much can be) in races, but the few times I've loaned him a pair of my skis which I've waxed he's been much faster than me. Which made him realize his skis were dogs. So he finally invested in a couple pairs of Fischer RSCs (I think one or both from Gearwest). I wax them for him when we travel to races together, and he's been happy.

But this year, with me out, he's been on his own for waxing. Due to his thrifty nature he's not getting into fluoros, but I suggested he get a small set of waxes to cover most conditions for racing. He wanted to go with Swix so I said LF6 plus HF12 (HF7 and HF8 combi pack). I'd actually suggested Holmenkol Blue and Red due to good things I hear about them and the low cost for big blocks, but haven't used them myself and that worried him. Oh, and I've given him lot of HC waxes to use for prep and base work. I also suggested Swix LF4 as a key race wax, but he was very reluctant to use that due to fear of hurting his skis w/o my supervision. He has a good iron, but still worries too much about burning the skis.

Anyway, the lead-in to the Lake Placid Loppet this past weekend had multiple days with lows of -15F and highs in the high single digits, though the night before the race "only" went down to maybe -5, with a high of 15. A little new snow each day for several days.

I said "harden the base then get LF4 for your race wax" but he was reluctant, and used LF6 over a few layers of CH6 or something similar. Some new snow at the race, his skis were not great (but not total dogs like his old pair) and he had fun. I wish I'd been there.
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MN Hoser
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Re: Non-race non-report

Postby MN Hoser » Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:20 pm

Interesting story. So did he get the waxes you suggested?

Give me a brick of Holmenkol Blue and a block of SkiGo 105 for corking, and I could take care of 80% of the conditions really well (around here). I might need to mix in something harder for stuff around 0F. On the warm side, it seems we always have ground up ice or harsh snow at warm temps, so Holm blue would work great. BTW, BNS is saying their all around solid is SkiGo 22 (the warm one that's also very hard).

Jay

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Re: Non-race non-report

Postby jt10000 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:50 pm

MN Hoser wrote:Interesting story. So did he get the waxes you suggested?

Give me a brick of Holmenkol Blue and a block of SkiGo 105 for corking, and I could take care of 80% of the conditions really well (around here). I might need to mix in something harder for stuff around 0F. On the warm side, it seems we always have ground up ice or harsh snow at warm temps, so Holm blue would work great. BTW, BNS is saying their all around solid is SkiGo 22 (the warm one that's also very hard).

Jay


I think so - at least the LF6, HF7, HF8. He's not about to use a pure flouro w/o me to put it on yet, though he's seen me and other people do it.
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Re: Non-race non-report

Postby MN Hoser » Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:41 am

There are guys (I believe they're local) doing some testing on waxes. They're engineers, so they have some good thoughts, but they also lack some things like matched flex skis with similar grinds. Even so, their tests are interesting and useful. So one that caught my eye was wax hardness:

http://www.skitestguys.com/Home/Lab_Tests.html

I've used a lot of Swix (and BTW, I think you cherry picked the line pretty well), but I've been burned a few times buy trying to use HF6 in fairly agressive snow in the teens F. The hardness chart seems to show that there is not much difference between HF6 and HF8 (and by assumption, HF7). That kind of jives with my experience. Also, one of my favorite training wax jobs used to be a mix of LF4 and LF6. They sell that now (LF5). I'd iron in some LF6 and then do a line of LF4 and iron again. If I do LF4 alone, I do 1/3 the ski at a time otherwise the wax chips off. Ok, I'm off topic, but it's interesting that manfrs like Toko, Start, Holemenkol show a fairly large difference in hardness in their HF waxes but Swix does not.

Jay

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Re: Non-race non-report

Postby jt10000 » Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:30 am

MN Hoser wrote:There are guys (I believe they're local) doing some testing on waxes. They're engineers, so they have some good thoughts, but they also lack some things like matched flex skis with similar grinds. Even so, their tests are interesting and useful. So one that caught my eye was wax hardness:

http://www.skitestguys.com/Home/Lab_Tests.html

I've used a lot of Swix (and BTW, I think you cherry picked the line pretty well), but I've been burned a few times buy trying to use HF6 in fairly agressive snow in the teens F. The hardness chart seems to show that there is not much difference between HF6 and HF8 (and by assumption, HF7). That kind of jives with my experience. Also, one of my favorite training wax jobs used to be a mix of LF4 and LF6. They sell that now (LF5). I'd iron in some LF6 and then do a line of LF4 and iron again. If I do LF4 alone, I do 1/3 the ski at a time otherwise the wax chips off. Ok, I'm off topic, but it's interesting that manfrs like Toko, Start, Holemenkol show a fairly large difference in hardness in their HF waxes but Swix does not.

Jay


Whoa, deep info in that chart - need to look at it more closely.

Since my friend is so thrifty, if he's already got either HF7 or HF8 but not the other (ie wasn't able to find the combi pack) I'll probably suggest he not try to get the other one and use his money for something else if he needs to. He's probably doing the Keskinada so needs to be ready for cold aggressive snow. And also the US Birkie but he's related to a CXC skier who will help him out with wax there I think.
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Re: Non-race non-report

Postby Raubie » Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:29 pm

MN,

LF-5/CH-5? New one to me - that'd be the perfect for my conditions. I see it's only available in a few places this year (Racewax/Gear West). I'd like to get my hands on some.

MN Hoser wrote:... If I do LF4 alone, I do 1/3 the ski at a time otherwise the wax chips off...

Zach Caldwell wrote about that a few years back and it seems to make all the diff with really hard waxes (and a good iron). Thanks for the Holmenkol/SkiGo tips, too.

@jt10000

Congrats. You'll probably be in the market for a pulk soon :)

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Re: Non-race non-report

Postby nxski » Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:36 pm

MN Hoser wrote:The hardness chart seems to show that there is not much difference between HF6 and HF8 (and by assumption, HF7).


I'm not quite sure how that could be, as those are the three waxes I use the most in my conditions I can say that there are huge differences in hardness between them.
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jt10000
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Re: Non-race non-report

Postby jt10000 » Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:57 pm

MN Hoser wrote:There are guys (I believe they're local) doing some testing on waxes. They're engineers, so they have some good thoughts, but they also lack some things like matched flex skis with similar grinds. Even so, their tests are interesting and useful. So one that caught my eye was wax hardness:

http://www.skitestguys.com/Home/Lab_Tests.html


For me one takeaway from that chart is how hard Fast Wax Teal is -- almost as hard as the White, but goes on a little easier (like Swix CH6). Which makes me happy because I've got a big block for prep hardening.
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