Classic Skiing Technique Rules...Running with Skis?

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dcpattie
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Classic Skiing Technique Rules...Running with Skis?

Postby dcpattie » Fri Sep 18, 2015 2:15 pm

I was reading the classic rules (FIS Rule 314.1.1) and found the section that allows for "Running with Skis" when doing the classic technique. What exactly is running with skis?

Is this essentially running or "bounding" uphill? In theory could this technique be accomplished with skate skis or would you need the grip section found on classic skis?
Dave in Nordic Virginia

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Re: Classic Skiing Technique Rules...Running with Skis?

Postby UPrSKr » Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:58 pm

Running, or bounding techniques with parallel skis, as well as running herringbone techniques without glide phase, are permitted classic techniques. If a glide phase exists, such as in diagonal stride, double pole, or double pole with kick or push, the skis must be parallel to be permitted classic techniques as far as I know.

Yes, the running technique can be done on skating skis. I know this as fact since it was pretty much the main technique I used today skiing on sand with skating skis. I would have preferred doing more diagonal striding and double poling but the trail was drier than I had hoped for, but I wanted to take the dog out for a run. That's the caveat. On snow, it would be very rare to have conditions so slow that you could (or would want to) run on a well waxed skating ski other than a running herringbone on a steep uphill. I skied two classic races on skating skis last season and used double pole and double pole push (pigging) most of the time, and any hills too steep to double pole I pretty much had to herringbone. I also skied two classic races on the National Championship course at MTU last season, a course pretty much impossible to effectively classic ski on skating skis. In those races, I did use running techniques on some of the uphills in lieu of herringboning, but I had kick wax on.

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Re: Classic Skiing Technique Rules...Running with Skis?

Postby liège » Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:58 pm

Here is an example of "running with skis": https://youtu.be/gNvim9u5PIQ

That said, perhaps you're looking at a different version of the current FIS ICR, as this is all they have to say about classic skiing:

310.2.1 Classical Technique
310.2.1.1 Classical technique includes the diagonal techniques, the double poling
techniques, herringbone techniques without a gliding phase, downhill techniques
and turning techniques.
310.2.1.2 Single or double-skating is not allowed.
310.2.1.3 Turning techniques comprise steps and pushes in order to change directions.
Where there is a set track, turning techniques with pushing are not
allowed. This will also apply to competitors skiing outside of the set track.
Where there is one or more set tracks, repeatedly changing or stepping in
and out of tracks is not allowed.

http://www.fis-ski.com/mm/Document/documentlibrary/Cross-Country/03/21/20/ICRCross-Country2015_marked-up_English.pdf

There has been quite a bit of discussion about double-poling races recently, and the general consensus is that juries will have more leeway to give written reprimands or disqualifications. New this year is this:

352.1.2 Sanctions for the violation of the classical technique rules can be given by
a unanimous decision of two jury members (including TD) without video
evidence and a hearing from the athlete.

This has been seen as a way of keeping people from skating while double-poling courses - arguably a better way than some other suggestions (having the first 500m of a race be a no-poles zone, to ensure that you have kick wax on; having "stride-only" sections of the course).

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Re: Classic Skiing Technique Rules...Running with Skis?

Postby dcpattie » Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:31 am

Thanks for the video - it looks like one would have difficultly performing this technique with only glide wax.
Dave in Nordic Virginia

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Re: Classic Skiing Technique Rules...Running with Skis?

Postby dcpattie » Sun Oct 09, 2016 2:37 pm

For 2016/17 I'm noticing Fischer, Madshus, and others are offering classic double poling (DP) skis. I'm guessing these are glide wax only. So back to the herringbone technique - is it possible to climb hills with only glide wax using the herringbone?
Dave in Nordic Virginia

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Re: Classic Skiing Technique Rules...Running with Skis?

Postby Magnus Johansson » Mon Oct 10, 2016 12:35 am

dcpattie wrote:For 2016/17 I'm noticing Fischer, Madshus, and others are offering classic double poling (DP) skis. I'm guessing these are glide wax only. So back to the herringbone technique - is it possible to climb hills with only glide wax using the herringbone?

Yes, it is. In the following video between 5:30 and 6:20 World Cup skiers are doing it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk5zelpnuX8

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Re: Classic Skiing Technique Rules...Running with Skis?

Postby dcpattie » Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:28 am

Magnus Johansson wrote:
dcpattie wrote:For 2016/17 I'm noticing Fischer, Madshus, and others are offering classic double poling (DP) skis. I'm guessing these are glide wax only. So back to the herringbone technique - is it possible to climb hills with only glide wax using the herringbone?

Yes, it is. In the following video between 5:30 and 6:20 World Cup skiers are doing it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk5zelpnuX8


Thanks Magnus - it seems that you need to go a bit wide with the herringbone without grip wax?
Dave in Nordic Virginia

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Re: Classic Skiing Technique Rules...Running with Skis?

Postby Magnus Johansson » Mon Oct 10, 2016 12:06 pm

dcpattie wrote:Thanks Magnus - it seems that you need to go a bit wide with the herringbone without grip wax?

You're welcome, Dave, and yes, without grip wax you have to dig deep with your ski edges. More herringbone technique without grips wax in part 2 from the same race: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGnqhLc45gE

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Re: Classic Skiing Technique Rules...Running with Skis?

Postby skiffrace » Mon Oct 10, 2016 1:32 pm

Magnus Johansson wrote:More herringbone technique without grips wax in part 2 from the same race: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGnqhLc45gE


Koch, Vegard, Swan.... pure nostalgia :rolleyes:
Especially Swan! I will never forget how he rode away from bolshevik Zimiatov on the last leg of 4x10K of the Sarajevo Olympics...
The cameras were set up in such a way that there were gaps in the coverage. Swan and Zimiatov were skiing together at the foot of the last major hill where the coverage of one camera ended, and when another camera took over, it was Swan all alone...
To bad Finland was too far off to overtake the reds and make it 1-2 for the Nordics..

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Re: Classic Skiing Technique Rules...Running with Skis?

Postby Magnus Johansson » Mon Oct 10, 2016 2:44 pm

skiffrace wrote:Koch, Vegard, Swan.... pure nostalgia :rolleyes:
Especially Swan! I will never forget how he rode away from bolshevik Zimiatov on the last leg of 4x10K of the Sarajevo Olympics...
The cameras were set up in such a way that there were gaps in the coverage. Swan and Zimiatov were skiing together at the foot of the last major hill where the coverage of one camera ended, and when another camera took over, it was Swan all alone...
To bad Finland was too far off to overtake the reds and make it 1-2 for the Nordics..

I do not know if Nikolaj Zimjatov was Bolshevik at all but we had great fights with the Russians back then, and 4 years later in Calgary the relay was even more exciting with falling Russians and a little sick Torgny Mogren for Sweden on the last leg.


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