Russian doping? -- (try again, on topic)

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MN Hoser
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Re: Russian doping? -- (try again, on topic)

Postby MN Hoser » Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:17 pm

For the US readers, there's a pretty amazing documentary called Icarus featuring the Russian director, Rodchekov. It's on Netflix.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/mov ... 523785001/

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Magnus Johansson
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Re: Russian doping? -- (try again, on topic)

Postby Magnus Johansson » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:26 am

MN Hoser wrote:For the US readers, there's a pretty amazing documentary called Icarus featuring the Russian director, Rodchekov. It's on Netflix.

Isn't it available world-wide on Netflix?

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Re: Russian doping? -- (try again, on topic)

Postby Neuro » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:14 am

Yes it was the film that led to the revelation and investigation, which is part of my skepticism. They do a documentary about doping and they just happened to get the mastermind of the whole Russian doping system (involving secret police), and it's during the filming (which he no doubt did for a fee) he is convinced to suddenly drop the biggest doping bomb of all time, to ease his own conscience? Just too convenient.

Again, FIS don't buy it either. That's why they let the athletes compete in the World Cup, just a temporary ban of a handful of the latest group now, pending their own investigation.

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Re: Russian doping? -- (try again, on topic)

Postby Neuro » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:09 am

Neuro wrote:Again, FIS don't buy it either. That's why they let the athletes compete in the World Cup, just a temporary ban of a handful of the latest group now, pending their own investigation.


Not only FIS, IBU (International Biathlon Union) does not really accept the evidence either. And if the allegations are true, there will be other unions from other sports affected since it was supposedly not only skiers or biathletes, yet only IOC has come to this conclusion.

It's so weird to see the World Cup races now. The Russians are supposedly massive cheaters, yet there they are competing.

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Re: Russian doping? -- (try again, on topic)

Postby dcpattie » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:44 pm

I haven't followed this story very closely but could someone please answer 2 basic questions:

1) has any of the alleged Russian skiers/biathletes actually returned a positive sample from Sochi 2014?
2) is Dr. Rodchenkov the sole single source for the Russian doping/cover-up methods?
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Re: Russian doping? -- (try again, on topic)

Postby Magnus Johansson » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:05 am

dcpattie wrote:I haven't followed this story very closely but could someone please answer 2 basic questions:

1) has any of the alleged Russian skiers/biathletes actually returned a positive sample from Sochi 2014?
2) is Dr. Rodchenkov the sole single source for the Russian doping/cover-up methods?

1. None of the mentioned athletes have returned positive samples from Sochi 2014.
2. Grigory Rodchenkov is by far the most important source, but the former RUSADA employee Vitaly Stepanov has also made allegations. Beside these two there are an unknown number of witnesses who came forward on a confidential basis allegedly corroborating what Richard McLaren claims already had been "secured".

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Re: Russian doping? -- (try again, on topic)

Postby Neuro » Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:11 pm

Putin was asked about the scandal and says the Americans are drugging Rodchenkov to make him say what they want.. :roll:

Even if that's too much, he also says Rodchenkov had earlier attempted suicide and was diagnosed with a mental disorder which seems to check out. He also says Rodchenkov had made a claim that money was everything.

Even if the last part should not be true, the implication is still that this is a person who could easily be bought and don't forget the whole premise here is that he is a massive cheater.

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Re: Russian doping? -- (try again, on topic)

Postby Magnus Johansson » Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:09 am

Grigory Rodchenkov's attorney Jim Walden is an interesting character who accuses IOC of cowardice and believes Rodchenkov will be tortured and killed if extradited to Russia: http://www.bbc.com/sport/42487917

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Re: Russian doping? -- (try again, on topic)

Postby Neuro » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:34 am

All winter sports federations (FIS, IBU etc) have sent a letter to IOC demanding to know exactly which Russians will not be invited to Olympics and why, as they can't understand the legal basis and why there's no proof for their exclusion.

For example, IBU (International Biathlon Union) says it's their duty to protect clean athletes, and that means not having them punished unjustly. The Russian star biathlete Shipulin, who now have been excluded by IOC, is said to have been "massively" tested by IBU without anything found, and IBU finds it unacceptable that athletes are excluded just for having competed in Sochi 2014.

https://www.nrk.no/sport/besseberg-vil- ... 1.13883080

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Re: Russian doping? -- (try again, on topic)

Postby Magnus Johansson » Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:03 pm

Neuro wrote:All winter sports federations (FIS, IBU etc) have sent a letter to IOC demanding to know exactly which Russians will not be invited to Olympics and why, as they can't understand the legal basis and why there's no proof for their exclusion.

Well done! I have written to Swedish Television (SVT) asking them what they do to get answers from the IOC in this case. SVT only say they follow the case via other mass media that have a more direct contact with the IOC! The IOC is a corrupt organization that has to be scrutinized and made answer questions, not given a free pass!

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Re: Russian doping? -- (try again, on topic)

Postby Magnus Johansson » Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:24 am

CAS has now decided in favor of the 39 Russian athletes that have been banned from the Olympics, and 28 of them are free to compete again; the other 11 have gotten their punishments reduced but they are considered guilty of violation of the anti-doping rules. If your Swedish isn't good enough I believe you can run the following article in an online translator program and get more details: https://www.svt.se/sport/vintersport/ryssland-cas-dom/
Here is a link to the homepage of CAS and the decisions: http://www.tas-cas.org/en/general-infor ... e-ioc.html

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Re: Russian doping? -- (try again, on topic)

Postby Neuro » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:13 am

That's incredible..

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Re: Russian doping? -- (try again, on topic)

Postby Magnus Johansson » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:52 am

Neuro wrote:That's incredible..

In a world of lies and deception, the truth seems incredible. I wonder what will happen to Sergej Ustiugov. He is not allowed to compete at the Olympics although he was never accused of any doping or manipulation. The IOC has not given an explanation. That organization is so embarrassing.

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Re: Russian doping? -- (try again, on topic)

Postby davidb » Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:03 pm

As I read this, I can't help wondering how Johaug feels.

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Re: Russian doping? -- (try again, on topic)

Postby dcpattie » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:03 pm

Magnus Johansson wrote:
Neuro wrote:That's incredible..

In a world of lies and deception, the truth seems incredible. I wonder what will happen to Sergej Ustiugov. He is not allowed to compete at the Olympics although he was never accused of any doping or manipulation. The IOC has not given an explanation. That organization is so embarrassing.


I never thought I'd be in the position to defend a Russian athlete but you're analysis is spot on. He has never once tested positive and to my knowledge, never been suspected of doping by those inside the sport.

#LetUstiugovSki
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