Nordic Ski World Championships

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Magnus Johansson
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Nordic Ski World Championships

Postby Magnus Johansson » Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:53 am

Isn't it strange that USA and France have only hosted the World Championships once each -- in 1950 and 1937 respectively --, and that ski nations such as Russia, Estonia, Ukraine and Slovenia never have? I think the World Championships should be more evenly distributed across the nordic skiing world.

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Re: Nordic Ski World Championships

Postby Neuro » Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:19 am

Agreed, but it mustn't be like Olympics where some unfitting or unfair location is chosen just because of politics. WC must remain the true championship of athlete skills on true and tested venues.

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Re: Nordic Ski World Championships

Postby Magnus Johansson » Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:03 am

Neuro wrote:Agreed, but it mustn't be like Olympics where some unfitting or unfair location is chosen just because of politics. WC must remain the true championship of athlete skills on true and tested venues.

You're very right; it must not be like the corrupt Olympics, but a true championship.

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Re: Nordic Ski World Championships

Postby dcpattie » Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:28 am

I think the Planica Nordic Centre (Slovenia) would be a great location for a WC. Also Salt Lake City (Solider Hollow) would be an excellent choice.
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Re: Nordic Ski World Championships

Postby Neuro » Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:12 am

Yes, but even known venues like Seefeld got big criticism at the WC tryout now for having a sprint course that is way too short, and this is typical when unused venues and people come do to things.

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Re: Nordic Ski World Championships

Postby liège » Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:49 am

That is odd that Russia hasn't hosted World Championships. I wonder if part of the issue is getting visas for all the nations quick enough - especially when it was USSR? When I've gone to Russia, visas have been a huge hassle.

To be honest about Seefeld, the sprint is a little weird -- almost possible (though slow) to get to the finish line from the last downhill by staying in your tuck. The last World Cup they hosted was in 1999, and they've never hosted a World Cup sprint. Next year, the course is slightly different (at the start) so the course will be ~200m longer. After the feedback, perhaps they will build another short hill into that new section. That said, I was pretty happy with the way the races went this weekend.

Planica is bidding for the 2023 World Championships, which would be fun. Cool backdrop for races. A little funky the way the distance course is primarily shaded until about 30 minutes before the starts, which makes classic waxing difficult.

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Re: Nordic Ski World Championships

Postby Neuro » Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:52 pm

Great backdrop but good point about the shadow to sun affecting snow conditions. IMO, this should be avoided for WC unless it's well known by all.

Another thing is being able to delay starts if it starts to snow. We've seen races made into a lottery by this.

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Re: Nordic Ski World Championships

Postby liège » Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:58 am

Right now, TV time decides when the races start - and in some cases, what events are held there. For example, it would have made more sense to have an individual start 10/15km FS race this last weekend in Seefeld before the Olympics, where there are 10/15km FS individual start races. But the only time slot available for the men was about 45 minutes long, so ... mass start it was. It's unfortunate (in some ways) that they can't/don't delay races when weather is changing, but the feeling (not necessarily mine) is if the World Cup isn't on TV, it isn't worth holding.

Oberstdorf's CL sprint this year was a classic example of that - thunder, lightning, and driving rain during warm-up/ski testing, and no one was willing to delay for better weather. Maybe lightning is a bigger deal in North America than in Europe, but everyone seemed pretty unconcerned about getting struck. It wasn't until a huge wind came through and started knocking over trees, a 3m X 3m inflatable sponsor cube blew across the stadium and ad boards were flying into the tracks that they realized that this wasn't going to be a fair race. (Victoria Carl, who is not the tiniest person, got knocked down by the wind, for example.) Half an hour later, the winds died down and they could have held a race, but it wouldn't have been televised.

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Re: Nordic Ski World Championships

Postby MN Hoser » Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:43 am

My first thought when reading the OP was, "Where would you hold it?" (in the US). I heard some negative comments on Soldier Hollow this year and found this:

https://utaholympiclegacy.org/soho-even ... th=2018-01

I think it's hard to find sites that have consistent snow (and probably snowmaking), have a track record with large events, have appropriate weather (not too cold or warm), have an appropriate course, and have the ability to put on a huge event (organization, money, volunteers).

We just had the Masters version of the World Champs here in MPLS. I was nervous that, despite all the efforts, something would go terribly wrong. First, there is a high likelihood that the racing needs to be on artificial snow. Two, the weather can be quite warm into January, preventing much snow making. What actually happened, was the weather was quite cold, which meant snow making was easy and the snow didn't become rounded and break down on the climbs. That said, they just got 7.5km (probably 6.5 or 7 km) of snow made in time for the racing. Three, weather can be really cold for 3-4 days, as in a high temp below 0F, or really warm, as in low temps above freezing.

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Re: Nordic Ski World Championships

Postby Neuro » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:12 am

liège wrote:Right now, TV time decides when the races start - and in some cases, what events are held there. For example, it would have made more sense to have an individual start 10/15km FS race this last weekend in Seefeld before the Olympics, where there are 10/15km FS individual start races. But the only time slot available for the men was about 45 minutes long, so ... mass start it was. It's unfortunate (in some ways) that they can't/don't delay races when weather is changing, but the feeling (not necessarily mine) is if the World Cup isn't on TV, it isn't worth holding.

Oberstdorf's CL sprint this year was a classic example of that - thunder, lightning, and driving rain during warm-up/ski testing, and no one was willing to delay for better weather. Maybe lightning is a bigger deal in North America than in Europe, but everyone seemed pretty unconcerned about getting struck. It wasn't until a huge wind came through and started knocking over trees, a 3m X 3m inflatable sponsor cube blew across the stadium and ad boards were flying into the tracks that they realized that this wasn't going to be a fair race. (Victoria Carl, who is not the tiniest person, got knocked down by the wind, for example.) Half an hour later, the winds died down and they could have held a race, but it wouldn't have been televised.


Yes that is surely the reason, but as seen from ski jumping, in reality it's not that big of a deal to postpone or move up starts or events, especially for something as important as World Championships where sport and fairness should be priority no. 1.

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Re: Nordic Ski World Championships

Postby liège » Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:40 am

That's a good point about ski jumping.

I don't know if the TV ratings for jumping are [unfathomably] good enough that they can justify taking another sport's "spot" or what. I do know that cross-country's ratings for a long time were boosted by Germany (back when Teichmann/Angerer/Sommefeldt were winning World Cups) and Poland (when Kowalcyzk was doing the same), but those ratings have dropped as results have. I just read something on langrenn.com about how good ratings are in Norway right now, but maybe the sport doesn't have the same pull elsewhere? But I agree - even though the US has been the beneficiary of changing conditions at World Championship - that it's best to have similar conditions for everyone. We were just talking about the 15km FS at Sapparo in 2007, where the silver medal went to Leanid Karneyenka (Belarus), who'd started early and was on the bus home when he got the word that his time had held up for a medal!

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Re: Nordic Ski World Championships

Postby Neuro » Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:03 pm

I forgot about Karneyenka and funny if he had already left the arena..

About Planica, it seem the likely venue for either the 2023 or 2025 World Champs according to pundits.

Great sprint course though, really enjoyed the World Cup race now. Although the downhills were quite challenging and could be unfair or even dangerous with poor conditions, but hopefully they'll have a backup route.

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Re: Nordic Ski World Championships

Postby Neuro » Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:46 am

Pundits (highly respected and knowledgeable) now say courses for World Championships are actually designed in order to include or even favor skiers from certain nations which are good sponsor wise, so what we thought was incompetence was actually cynical calculation..


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