Visma Ski Classics: Toblach-Cortina

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dcpattie
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Visma Ski Classics: Toblach-Cortina

Postby dcpattie » Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:11 pm

I just finished watching Toblach-Cortina (what a beautiful region) and here are a few observations.

You can really cover a lot of territory (and fast) with using only three techniques:

1. Double poling (sorry Jeff)
2. Herringbone
3. Downhill skiing

As a new skier this is attractive to me. Double poling takes a lot of strength but you are in a very balanced position compared to striding or skating. Herringbone running is something I'll need more time developing. As for downhill on nordic skis I don't quite have the nerve to bomb down steep sections with confidence.

I know ski manufacturers are now producing double poling skis but I'd like to see them truly optimize a ski in all three areas. A good gliding ski that is easy to herringbone (perhaps steel edges) and is stable during technical downhill sections. Maybe a heel locking mechanism for super downhills?

Question: what makes a good gliding ski during double poling...would you want more or less camber in the ski?
Dave in Nordic Virginia

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Magnus Johansson
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Re: Visma Ski Classics: Toblach-Cortina

Postby Magnus Johansson » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:28 am

dcpattie wrote:Question: what makes a good gliding ski during double poling...would you want more or less camber in the ski?

Jenny Beckman of Gear West explains what a double poling ski is about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8KUvycsV8Y

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Re: Visma Ski Classics: Toblach-Cortina

Postby jt10000 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:35 am

Magnus Johansson wrote:
dcpattie wrote:Question: what makes a good gliding ski during double poling...would you want more or less camber in the ski?

Jenny Beckman of Gear West explains what a double poling ski is about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8KUvycsV8Y
Nice.

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Re: Visma Ski Classics: Toblach-Cortina

Postby JeffOYB » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:42 am

I clicked forward thru the video of the race and didn't see any good hbone or descending. Just a lot of boring DP on the flats. Yeah, they move along, that's for sure. A valley isn't the worst place for a course, if there's pretty river, but at the same time, it is. I moused thru again and saw some slow descending and a brief logjam hbone.
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Re: Visma Ski Classics: Toblach-Cortina

Postby JeffOYB » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:12 am

The girl in the video mentions DPing the Birkie. This would never happen, right? My impression is that skiers DP a course when it is bad and boring or designed decades ago for heavy wood skis and the wide open traffic needs of thousands of skiers. Even elite skiers are not DPing actual XC courses, are they? That is, a course with good big hills or as many hills as the Birkie has.

What about the Nokie? It is famous for some flats but also some hills and i don't recall anyone is DPing it all.

I wonder what a twisting uphill does to affect the comparative speed of DP vs Stride.

I recall doing some twisting climbs w skiers who were trying to DP and their attempt to skate/step turn around the uphill bends caused them to bog down and get back on their heels while I would attack w the other kind of turn w no loss of speed due to the turns. What is it called? I call it "swing tail." Striding turn? ...The outside tip stays in the tracks. Such turns are treated like straight-aways by skilled skiers. I've always liked such sections in races because they are beautiful, they feel great, and skill always seems neglected in favor of fitness and fast gliding so I've always been able to gap rivals then. It's so easy, too. Afterward they usually reel me back in because they wax in favor of glide not grip. And our courses never had enough striding to totally defeat boring DPers.

We've only had ONE monster DPer who attempted to DP every course. He would use the Froggy Jump or some such term he invented for crunching his way up steep climbs. He was a national champion pro canoe racer. He would sometimes win w his trick. Sometimes we wd start together in intervals and we wd yo-yo back'n'forth the whole course. it was ridiculous. I'd pass him on climbs, he'd pass me if there were any long boring ugly flats.
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Re: Visma Ski Classics: Toblach-Cortina

Postby Blah » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:14 pm

I think elite skiers could Double Pole the Birkie just fine. Not sure it would be faster, the second half isn't that hilly so I think that section there would be an advantage.

The Noque has been double poled, last year the skier who finished second dp skied it. He also double poled the Seeley Classic which utilizes a lot of the Birkie trail.

You can't compare your local hero skier to guys that are on and off the World Cup in regards to what can and cannot be done double poling.

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Re: Visma Ski Classics: Toblach-Cortina

Postby MN Hoser » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:04 pm

Even skiers at the World Masters (old dudes) were double poling the course....and doing quite well.

It's a hilly course. I can't imagine doing a workout dp'ing the course. DP'ing a race...that's some serious strength.


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