How to prevent DP from taking over Classic?

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JeffOYB
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How to prevent DP from taking over Classic?

Post by JeffOYB » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:22 pm

Has anyone been noticing the extensive ongoing discussion on various blogs about how to keep classic going?

It seems like there are various tendencies. One of the big trends now is DP specializing, with DP skis. I think the Visma Ski Classics ppl are defending DP against haters. They're saying that DP will come on stronger and stronger, that it is naturally the fastest style of classic. They are also really big on the Long Distance racing and the marathons -- since they sponsor the World Loppets. They think DP is under attack by the Striding Only Zones and ski pole length limits. Of course others are representing the DP Hater side.

https://vismaskiclassics.com/news/artic ... le-poling/

My view is predictable: I say the course determines the technique. Not the length at all. I also suggest that with certain courses there wouldn't have to be rules or zones. Or even bans on skating. It could just be ski racing.

I've been watching YouTubes of the Visma races for years -- from before they were a sponsor. What is most easily noticed is that these are road races. Pelotons form. The grooming is wide and smooth and the terrain is gentle -- except for occasional freak features, like a steep climb at the end into the heart of a mountain town, for instance. So, obviously DP is the winning method.

...And obviously the racing is boring as heck. And there is no ski handling. This is obvious beyond imagining. I suppose this is done because these races sometimes have thousands of skiers.

Well, just like road biking is popular for some, mt-biking is popular among others. The solution for technique is to develop a mt-biking form of XC to contrast w the road type which is epitomized in these wide flat smooth gentle DP marathons. Yes some have big climbs, just like road racing does. And some have high speeds and some amount of ski handling, just like road biking does. This doesn't rule out the mtbiking style.

I suggest that the only way to bring back ski handling and to naturally make striding the winning technique and the first method of choice, even compared to skating, is to make the courses twist and wind up into the hills. Narrowness might not be key, but it might be. This might not be suitable for vastly huge mass races. ...Just like cyclocross doesn't have huge Century Ride type fields. And given modern ski gear I question if set tracks are even relevant. Midlength skis and combi boots make tracks useless and let you handle skis freely and powerfully. As with cyclocross the courses could have "choose your adventure" sections and could be wide, with various route options you can choose. The courses could be prepared by a pre-run of snowmobiles and minimal grooming. Basically some somewhat packed zones.

If you wanted to have striding win for a compact CX type of course you could even omit grooming and let people pre-ski the course in the days/hours before and find their best lines for a given width of possible allowed terrain. There's be a variety of tracks that get skied in and which change during a race. ...Which wd be easy to spectate. Striding and handling wd dominate such racing. Tho skate moves and DP wd fit in occasionally. Rules telling you how to ski would be pointless. I'd even leave a lot of fallen logs as they were. Skis go easily over logs up to 1.5 ft in diameter. Or mass up smaller logs against bigger ones and pack snow over. At some point a ski w a partial metal edge might be helpful.
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jt10000
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Re: How to prevent DP from taking over Classic?

Post by jt10000 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:47 am

JeffOYB wrote:...you could even omit grooming and let people pre-ski the course in the days/hours before and find their best lines for a given width of possible allowed terrain. There's be a variety of tracks that get skied in and which change during a race
:?
JeffOYB wrote:I'd even leave a lot of fallen logs as they were. Skis go easily over logs up to 1.5 ft in diameter.
:shock:
JeffOYB wrote: At some point a ski w a partial metal edge might be helpful.
:vom:

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Re: How to prevent DP from taking over Classic?

Post by Blah » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:45 am

Can't stop won't stop

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Re: How to prevent DP from taking over Classic?

Post by TooHeavy » Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:06 pm

At the World Cup level it will take rules. At the recreation level and weekend warrior level. It will not take over classic. It can't ,most people including myself are not strong enough to double pole a distance event . I have watch video of old farts trying to DP the Vasa Loppet. Entertaining.

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Re: How to prevent DP from taking over Classic?

Post by JeffOYB » Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:18 pm

On our local favorite trail, the Poto, I can't see WC skiers doublepoling more than we locals would. They couldn't doublepole the climbs. They twist too much and have sizable level changes. It's a singletrack mtbike trails. It's wonderful for skiing and requires skill on the downs and ups. There's quite a bit of scramble herringbone w direction changes. Very satisfying. You wouldn't need any rules, not for technique or pole length or zone. It could be freestyle and striding + kickwax will win.

...But we're just flunkies. No "real" Nordic skier has even attempted this trail. It wd be neat to see what someone who really CAN doublepole would do. I'd bet they'd do what I say above.

Singletrack is coming to Nordic.

Ski-handling and skill is going to make a comeback.

Striding will dominate even freestyle events.
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JeffOYB
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Re: How to prevent DP from taking over Classic?

Post by JeffOYB » Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:21 pm

roadie haters gonna hate
jt10000 wrote:
JeffOYB wrote:...you could even omit grooming and let people pre-ski the course in the days/hours before and find their best lines for a given width of possible allowed terrain. There's be a variety of tracks that get skied in and which change during a race
:?
JeffOYB wrote:I'd even leave a lot of fallen logs as they were. Skis go easily over logs up to 1.5 ft in diameter.
:shock:
JeffOYB wrote: At some point a ski w a partial metal edge might be helpful.
:vom:
Jeff Potter
http://OutYourBackDoor.com
indie outdoor adventure, culture, heritage
...bikes, boats, skis, luggage, media & more!

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