Skin ski, what to get?

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Neuro
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Re: Skin ski, what to get?

Postby Neuro » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:17 am

Blah wrote:the problem you are having with the skis has nothing to do with the brand. You have a pair of skis that is too stiff for you. All of the R-skins I have skied are very easy to kick.

What is your weight? Did you happen to the keep the stickers that were on the base of the ski? If you have those still I can tell you exactly how close the skis are to your weight. For the R-Skins I tend to pick a ski that is about 4kg over my weight and I still get great kick and glide.

If you are running an NNN binding you could slide the binding forward to improve on your grip, especially in icy conditions where getting grip is more difficult.

I'm 82kg / 189 cm but there were no stickers on the base of the ski. There was only a tag by a serviceman that said they were measured.

I contacted the Rossignol importer and they said like you the R-skins are slightly softer and one should go for ~5kg more than recommended, but since I'm mostly going to be classic skiing with the family and not really striding full tilt, I gave my real weight to the shop instead of the weight+5kg, so in reality they should be softer rather than harder. The only thing is that the shop might have adjusted for this.

I did not try to move the binding yet, so there's that, but as you confirm, the icy and grainy conditions is probably a big factor here.

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Re: Skin ski, what to get?

Postby Neuro » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:23 am

skiffrace wrote:
Magnus Johansson wrote:Yes, a trail in the woods is nicer than a road with cars

Where do you guys rollerski up there? Do you really go out on the road with traffic?
Even if my rollerski skills were much better, I would think 3x before venturing there.
For me, it's only bicycle trails, with (reasonably) smooth surface and (reasonably) flat.
This means that regardless if this is Portland, OR, or tri-city, Poland, such places are few and far between.

I really don't want to go on trafficked roads at all, but the first trips of the year when the paths are still full of gravel, I find a road in the woods and go there. But as soon as the gravel is cleard I go my usual path along the river in the city. Nice mix of uphills and flats.

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Re: Skin ski, what to get?

Postby skiffrace » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:42 am

Magnus Johansson wrote:Yes, countryside roads, but we prefer bicycle trails, or even better: roller ski courses.

Dedicated roller ski courses? Wow, they put your tax money to good use in Sweden!!! In US it's F-22s and F-35s, in Poland it's 3 bureaucrats doing the work of 1.

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Re: Skin ski, what to get?

Postby davidb » Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:25 am

But we need those F 35s so we can protect those guys rollerskiing on their dedicated paved courses.

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Magnus Johansson
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Re: Skin ski, what to get?

Postby Magnus Johansson » Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:10 pm

skiffrace wrote:
Magnus Johansson wrote:Yes, countryside roads, but we prefer bicycle trails, or even better: roller ski courses.

Dedicated roller ski courses? Wow, they put your tax money to good use in Sweden!!! In US it's F-22s and F-35s, in Poland it's 3 bureaucrats doing the work of 1.

Here is a little video clip from Snöå roller ski course in western Dalecarlia, Sweden: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnVYjC1aAVE

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Re: Skin ski, what to get?

Postby Magnus Johansson » Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:37 am

davidb wrote:But we need those F 35s so we can protect those guys rollerskiing on their dedicated paved courses.

Roller skiers are not interested in that kind of protection, I believe.

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Re: Skin ski, what to get?

Postby Neuro » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:33 am

Neuro wrote:Will come back with more when I've used them further

Had another round today after the weekend snowfall. Around 0 to -1 degree snow and another loop of the track had opened with nice striding areas. Completely different story. Had nice grip everywhere. Could go straight up where the track went to fishbone area, and the glide was still fantastic.

I had to 'run' with them and not just glide in order to get nice weight transfer, but that was expected as that's how I specified them when I ordered. Even though the grip is good, it's still not the rock solid grip that some people are talking about, but like the Rossignol importer said, the skis will get better as the ski and hairs get used more.

Main realization is how great the glide with the skin ski really is and how nice not to buy a lot of waxing gear and use time applying them. Highly recommended.

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Re: Skin ski, what to get?

Postby Magnus Johansson » Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:25 pm

Neuro wrote:Had nice grip everywhere. Could go straight up where the track went to fishbone area, and the glide was still fantastic.

Great to read! Congratulations!

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Re: Skin ski, what to get?

Postby Neuro » Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:05 pm

Although like I said in an earlier post, when it was icy and old grainy snow, they seemed to work less well than normal skis with klister (that I skied next to). And it's yet to be seen how they will work on cold snow where the glide might be an issue, will let you know.

Should also say the R-skin skis feels very light.

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Re: Skin ski, what to get?

Postby Neuro » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:48 am

Went out for a long trip on fresh -5C snow, worked perfectly again. Basically the same grip as on 0C. Glide is still excellent.

As I (purposefully) bought skis with a slightly stiffer camber, I need to 'run' with them in order to get grip, but when I was tired at the end of the (too long) trip, it would have been great to just switch to a grippier skin and 'walk' home, so ideally should have gotten a slightly softer camber Atomics to make both skins work. Switching on the same trip seems to really be taking advantage of the skin system.

Of course you pay more for the Atomics which is the only type that (so far) come with double sets of skins and an easy-switch system, but it might be worth it unless you get a really good deal on a rival ski like I did. If you still go for a single-skin ski, you might, as testers have also said, consider a slightly softer ski compared to your normal camber as there seems no issue with the glide, at least with the Rossignols. Then you get max grip all the way.

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Re: Skin ski, what to get?

Postby Blah » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:56 am

Neuro wrote:Went out for a long trip on fresh -5C snow, worked perfectly again. Basically the same grip as on 0C. Glide is still excellent.

As I (purposefully) bought skis with a slightly stiffer camber, I need to 'run' with them in order to get grip, but when I was tired at the end of the (too long) trip, it would have been great to just switch to a grippier skin and 'walk' home, so ideally should have gotten a slightly softer camber Atomics to make both skins work. Switching on the same trip seems to really be taking advantage of the skin system.

Of course you pay more for the Atomics which is the only type that (so far) come with double sets of skins and an easy-switch system, but it might be worth it unless you get a really good deal on a rival ski like I did. If you still go for a single-skin ski, you might, as testers have also said, consider a slightly softer ski compared to your normal camber as there seems no issue with the glide, at least with the Rossignols. Then you get max grip all the way.


I tend to pick the R-Skin stiffer than body weight with little issue which makes me wonder if you skis were picked excessively stiff. Are you using a NNN binding? If so you can slide the binding forward and that will provide you with more grip.

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Neuro
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Re: Skin ski, what to get?

Postby Neuro » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:00 am

The importer said it was generally quite soft, but when ordering at the shop, I had to select between 4-5 skill levels in addition to the weight and I chose the 'exercise' one just before 'elite', so I guess the shop knows the ski's characteristic and adjusted for it, giving me a relative stiff ski.

And it's really just like expected, just stiff enough to give nice grip when run, but stiff enough to give great glide when off the push. But it's quite stiff as a guy with Salomon skins was walking straight up the steepest part but I had to fishbone. Of course on top where it was flat, my glide was that much better.

But I will adjust the binding forward like you suggest.

In your experience, does the R-skin vary a lot in stiffness?

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Re: Skin ski, what to get?

Postby Blah » Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:07 am

I think you will feel a notable difference when you move the binding forward. Regularly cleaning the skin also helps with grip but does not affect glide.

The R-Skins vary a lot in flex, but this is by design, so that they can cover a multitude of weight ranges. It's unfortunate that the flex sticker wasn't kept with the skis. This would tell us exactly how stiff the skis actually are.

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Re: Skin ski, what to get?

Postby Neuro » Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:17 pm

This is not about skin ski per se, but say I should want to reduce the flex, would it be possible by strapping them hard together during the off season, or by some other means? Or will the flex naturally be reduced by usage?

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Re: Skin ski, what to get?

Postby Neuro » Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:16 am

FWIW I sold the R-Skins as they were just too stiff for me and it seems I can't de-camber them being honeycomb core.

Will think what to get next, but wait for next season maybe. There has been some good offers on the Atomic Redster Skintec that comes with 2 easy-to-change skins, but didn't like that they got so poor review in this comparative review (March 2016) by SkiSport, a Norwegian magazine, of all the top models.

Interestingly, Rossignol has already come out with a new 17/18 model of the R-Skin with the following improvements:
- Using the best core and sole from Rossignol
- Camber further optimalized
- Skins slightly shorter hair for better glide and forwarding (I would guess better on icy snow as well)

Comes in lengths of 186, 191, 198, 203 and 208cm
Weight pr pair: Ca 1140 gr / 198
Width: 44mm


Unfortunately this early release model at the height of winter costs a small fortune, but might be an option for next season. I'm also going to be looking at the Salomon Equipe RS as it is a race winner and consistently scoring well in tests.

Please add your experiences, tips here.


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