1000 cheating Russians

[Magnus Johansson]

Thanks Lew, regarding the "birther" stuff in particular.

Please explain your comment, Jay. What is "birther stuff"?

[rmattson]

This is a cross country ski forum not a political forum.
All posts moved to way off topic forum.

[Magnus Johansson]

This is a cross country ski forum not a political forum.
All posts moved to way off topic forum.

I think the subject is strongly cross-country related since among the suspects there are cross-country skiers.

[skiffrace]

What is "birther stuff"?

Claims that Obama is not a real US president because he was [not born in the US, African/Kenyan, too black, not a 'real American' etc. etc.]
Sold as a marketing product to ~100 million US and overseas customers by Donald Trump a few years ago, withdrawn from the market (due to product obsolescence) by Donald Trump couple of months ago. http://edition.cnn.com/2016/09/15/polit ... ed-states/
Many overseas customers did not get the memo.

I think the subject is strongly cross-country related since among the suspects there are cross-country skiers.

I've never seen pictures of Obama x-country skiing on the lawn of the White House.

[Magnus Johansson]

What is "birther stuff"?

Claims that Obama is not a real US president because he was [not born in the US, African/Kenyan, too black, not a 'real American' etc. etc.]
Sold as a marketing product to ~100 million US and overseas customers by Donald Trump a few years ago, withdrawn from the market (due to product obsolescence) by Donald Trump couple of months ago. http://edition.cnn.com/2016/09/15/polit ... ed-states/
Many overseas customers did not get the memo.

I think the subject is strongly cross-country related since among the suspects there are cross-country skiers.

I've never seen pictures of Obama x-country skiing on the lawn of the White House.

Please,Tom, quote with the name of the commentator: Click the button with the quotation marks (") or type in square brackets "quote="Magnus Johansson"" if you're quoting me.

Tom: "etc. etc."

Can birther stuff be almost anything regarding Obama? Obama is an unconstitutional president. It's a simple fact many Americans have failed to understand, or don't want to understand.

What has Obama's lack of cross-country skiing on the lawn of the White House to do with 1000 cheating Russians?

[Magnus Johansson]

Now the 1000 cheating Russians are perhaps 998 after Alexander Legkov and Yevgenij Belov yesterday were freed from doping charges. This happens only a few days after the USA changed president.

[dcpattie]

The entire process is broken. US doping agents only test US athletes, Russian agents only test Russians. No wonder these sports are filled with scandals - its practically baked in. Only at the Olympics and perhaps some of the big international events where you'll find a pool of international doping testers.

This really shouldn't be that hard.

1) One strike and you're out.
2) National teams with a certain percentage of their athletes that test positive must also be punished. For example, if X members of the Prussian Nordic ski test positive, the consequence is the entire team cannot compete for an entire olympic cycle (4-years). Discourage nations from benefiting from doped athletes!
3) Multinational anti-doping teams. This way Russians are not only testing Russians; Germans are not only testing Germans; etc. Instead have multinational anti-doping programs that (for example) allow for an "Italian, American, and Nigerian anti-doping team" test an American athlete. Pair rich/developed countries with poor/undeveloped nations to share costs.

[Neuro]

In biathlon, despite much coming of the accusations except 2 suspended, Russia has now lost its right to host the World Championship in 2021, and on the very day of the World Championship start in Austria now, another one is suspended without the case even having reached the Anti-Doping Hearing Panel of the Biathlon Union (IBU). Smacks of a witch hunt to me.

[Magnus Johansson]

In biathlon, despite much coming of the accusations except 2 suspended, Russia has now lost its right to host the World Championship in 2021, and on the very day of the World Championship start in Austria now, another one is suspended without the case even having reached the Anti-Doping Hearing Panel of the Biathlon Union (IBU). Smacks of a witch hunt to me.

Yes, this is most probably a politically motivated scam, and athletes like Martin Fourcade and commentators like Björn Ferry lend themselves to it. It's embarrassing.

[skiffrace]

n biathlon, despite much coming of the accusations except 2 suspended, Russia has now lost its right to host the World Championship in 2021, and on the very day of the World Championship start in Austria now, another one is suspended without the case even having reached the Anti-Doping Hearing Panel of the Biathlon Union (IBU). Smacks of a witch hunt to me.

In legal systems with jury trial every now and then there is a public outcry about some particular jury decision. The masses just "know" that the defendent is guilty/innocent, and that the jury got it all wrong.
What the masses fail to consider is that jury
A) has access to far more and better information than the media rumors available to the public and
B) spends days/weeks/months considering the case vs 10 seconds spend by the average judgemental Joe-Shmoe.

This attitude is a manifestation of "disdain for the experts" cognitive bias closely related to this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superiority

Furthermore, in most systems the best prediction of a future behavior is the past behavior.
A country that for 40 years was a Frankenstein factory is very likely to continue to be one.

[Magnus Johansson]

n biathlon, despite much coming of the accusations except 2 suspended, Russia has now lost its right to host the World Championship in 2021, and on the very day of the World Championship start in Austria now, another one is suspended without the case even having reached the Anti-Doping Hearing Panel of the Biathlon Union (IBU). Smacks of a witch hunt to me.

In legal systems with jury trial every now and then there is a public outcry about some particular jury decision. The masses just "know" that the defendent is guilty/innocent, and that the jury got it all wrong.

In this case it seems mysteriously difficult to find the defendants guilty, so much so that the charges appear to be frivolous.

What the masses fail to consider is that jury
A) has access to far more and better information than the media rumors available to the public and
B) spends days/weeks/months considering the case vs 10 seconds spend by the average judgemental Joe-Shmoe.

This attitude is a manifestation of "disdain for the experts" cognitive bias closely related to this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superiority

No, Tom, my view -- and I suppose also Neuro's -- on this case is not based on media rumors but on the peculiar circumstances surrounding it. When so-called experts contribute to those or fail to note them it is logical to question their expertise.

Furthermore, in most systems the best prediction of a future behavior is the past behavior.
A country that for 40 years was a Frankenstein factory is very likely to continue to be one.

That is not a pertinent view, but prejudice.

[Magnus Johansson]

Now the 1000 cheating Russians are perhaps 998 after Alexander Legkov and Yevgenij Belov yesterday were freed from doping charges. This happens only a few days after the USA changed president.

Ha, ha, ha! Now the IOC has barred these same two athletes from further participation in Olympic Games! What is happening in the IOC? A real journalist should examine that.

[Neuro]

It's so bizarre. Is there any proof? All I've seen since the ridiculous claim of 1000 cheating Russians are endless stories of "suspicions".

[Magnus Johansson]

It's so bizarre. Is there any proof? All I've seen since the ridiculous claim of 1000 cheating Russians are endless stories of "suspicions".

Yes, really bizarre. I have not read any claims saying that illegal substances have been found in test samples from Legkov and Belov, only that the Russians exchanged the test samples, but the proof of that is still missing.

[skiffrace]

It's so bizarre. Is there any proof? All I've seen since the ridiculous claim of 1000 cheating Russians are endless stories of "suspicions".

The International Olympic Committee has nothing else to do but to pick on the poor lily-white Russians.
Why? Because IOC just "doesn't like Russia". and want to "smear" it just for the heck of it.
You come from a Western country/culture where openness, honesty and transparency are the accepted social norms, and are unable to understand the Russian asiatic culture where none of the above applies.
Russia is an absolutist, tyrannical state where end justifies the means. Truth is always relative, as is the human health and life.
But as Saint Augustin said "the written words are just concepts, you have to go through the experience"
SInce you will never go through the "Russian experience", you will never grasp their malignant and perfidious mindset.

And as for evidence: here is the McLaren report, an exhaustive, comprehensive study involving massive amount of investigative work.
1. https://www.wada-ama.org/en/resources/d ... ort-part-i
2. https://www.wada-ama.org/en/resources/d ... rt-part-ii