Kuzmin scraping and structure

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vquick
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Re: Kuzmin scraping and structure

Postby vquick » Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:28 pm

Hi everyone, thanks for all the good info in this thread! I have been aware of Kuzmin's ideas and haven't really used glide wax for years, except for the occasional race. Earlier this season I noticed my skis were really slow in some conditions, and after scraping and polishing the bases they seem much better.

I need a new steel scraper and was considering getting Kuzmin's. It's just hard to find much info (other than his papers) in English. Anyone have experience with the new scraper design with removable blades? How many scrapers do you really need, and what other tools are essential? The roto brushes he sells are very expensive and I'd have to be convinced they are significantly better than standard roto brushes (or non-ski brushes that I could buy at Home Depot).

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Neuro
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Re: Kuzmin scraping and structure

Postby Neuro » Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:53 am

Can't find any info on the type with removable blades?

FWIW I have Kuzmin and it works well, although it's a bit tricky to use since it's quite small and you need to hold it a certain way with the thumbs to prevent it sliding off the edge. I would have liked a jig for it.

The brush is very fine and of good quality, but don't know if really needed compared to others. I believe the main difference is that there's fluoride already on the brush.

An alternative, but much pricier is Multicut. The basic one has two edges, one plain and one structured. This seems to be a bit larger than Kuzmin and can even be sharpened.
Last edited by Neuro on Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Magnus Johansson
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Re: Kuzmin scraping and structure

Postby Magnus Johansson » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:56 am

Neuro wrote:An alternative, but much pricier is Multicut.

Other scrapers are found at http://skimateria.se/sicklar/ and http://www.skigo.se/skigo/produkter/val ... krapa.html

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Neuro
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Re: Kuzmin scraping and structure

Postby Neuro » Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:08 am

Those attached to a handle are nice, Kuzmin should really have something similar.

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Re: Kuzmin scraping and structure

Postby Loran » Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:43 pm

Hi

high speed roto-brushes is a brilliant idea IMHO.
Note that the FP brush is another thing ; It is supposed to coat with a thin layer of Fluoropolymer, not polishing.

I have no tested the new blades, but the new tungsten carbide one is promising, at least for the initial job of removing a layer of P-Tex. Then apply a structure and/or scrap a bit with "+" before polishing.

The other required tool is, you guessed, a manual structuring tool. (I'm not convinced by kuzmin's yet. )

Stay safe with a light rolling and thin (0.3mm) linear and maybe a very light rolling intermittent.

For wet snow add a deeper rill linear (1mm, and 2mm when very wet) to the rear half of the ski only. Then add an intermittent structure (or Kuzmin's helical if you want to test that) to the whole ski.

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Re: Kuzmin scraping and structure

Postby vquick » Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:08 pm

Thanks, all. Even that Ski Go scraper is over a $100 for basically a plastic handle and metal blade. There must be a non-ski tool that would do this much more cheaply.... Feel free to laugh at this, but how about a regular plane with an adjustable blade, like this: http://a.co/d0hzWxQ. Could put some felt or fabric under the base of the tool to prevent it contacting the ski. I have a pair of rock skis with really chewed up bases that I could try it on.

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Re: Kuzmin scraping and structure

Postby Loran » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:47 pm

Good sharp tools for, say, wood machinery, are not cheap either.
Also, At least for Kuzmin's or skimateria's, they are not producing a flat base and are not so "basic". The produced roughness is a very very important glide factor.
So, producing a sharp and not straight tool is probably not that easy.

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Re: Kuzmin scraping and structure

Postby dcpattie » Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:34 pm

I'm new to waxing and was just about to drop a bunch of money on waxes, irons and other tuning equipment but now I'm not sure after finding this thread...awesome!

I'm guessing this technique is only good for skate skiing and only the glide zones on classic skis?

How about using this (scraping) technique on Alpine skis?

Also, these scrapers are not available in the US; however, would his scraper work? http://www.racewax.com/sks-base-planer- ... -for-skis/
Dave in Nordic Virginia

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Magnus Johansson
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Re: Kuzmin scraping and structure

Postby Magnus Johansson » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:06 am

dcpattie wrote:I'm guessing this technique is only good for skate skiing and only the glide zones on classic skis?

Yes.

dcpattie wrote:How about using this (scraping) technique on Alpine skis?

It is already used.

dcpattie wrote:Also, these scrapers are not available in the US; however, would his scraper work? http://www.racewax.com/sks-base-planer- ... -for-skis/

You can order a Skimateria or Kuzmin scraper from https://www.skistart.com/eng/. I suspect you will not get free shipping though.

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Re: Kuzmin scraping and structure

Postby dcpattie » Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:19 pm

What about waxless skis? Obviously you'd want to avoid scraping the fish scale section but what about scraping the glide sections?
Dave in Nordic Virginia

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Re: Kuzmin scraping and structure

Postby Magnus Johansson » Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:41 am

dcpattie wrote:What about waxless skis? Obviously you'd want to avoid scraping the fish scale section but what about scraping the glide sections?

No problem. The same goes for skin skis.

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dcpattie
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Re: Kuzmin scraping and structure

Postby dcpattie » Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:45 am

Magnus Johansson wrote:
Neuro wrote:An alternative, but much pricier is Multicut.

Other scrapers are found at http://skimateria.se/sicklar/ and http://www.skigo.se/skigo/produkter/val ... krapa.html


About the Skigo base scraper and pink papers (super fine sanding paper). It appears that Skigo does not advertise the base scraper as an alternative to waxing but rather just another step towards ensuring the best possible glide. I wonder if their scrapers are significantly different from the Kuzmin scrapers? Then again, Skigo sells several waxing products so of course they don't want to catabolize their own sales.
Dave in Nordic Virginia

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Magnus Johansson
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Re: Kuzmin scraping and structure

Postby Magnus Johansson » Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:26 am

dcpattie wrote:About the Skigo base scraper and pink papers (super fine sanding paper). It appears that Skigo does not advertise the base scraper as an alternative to waxing but rather just another step towards ensuring the best possible glide. I wonder if their scrapers are significantly different from the Kuzmin scrapers? Then again, Skigo sells several waxing products so of course they don't want to catabolize their own sales.

Yes, that is of course correct, Dave, but Skigo's base scraper looks almost exactly like Skimateria's (except the handle is plastic instead of wooden) and is probably an equivalent to Skimateria's P-cut scraper; even the price is almost the same.

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Neuro
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Re: Kuzmin scraping and structure

Postby Neuro » Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:36 pm

FWIW, I have the universal Kuzmin scraper, and although glide was good, I changed to a pair with manual structure and the glide was noticeably better (skate ski). This was exactly the same type of ski and similarly used as well (had to change due to weight loss as old skis too stiff).

But really loving this new world with scraper for glide and skin for grip. Just one prep for the season and you're done. Add the new easily moveable binding and it's really a game changer.

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Re: Kuzmin scraping and structure

Postby Magnus Johansson » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:46 am

Neuro wrote:FWIW, I have the universal Kuzmin scraper, and although glide was good, I changed to a pair with manual structure and the glide was noticeably better (skate ski).

Yes, the structure of the base is very important, like mentioned earlier in this thread. It is a little like Formula 1 racing around 1980 when the cars used ground effect chassis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ovlrlrz8J6M


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