Skate ski camber and slipping on push off

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Run&Ski
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Skate ski camber and slipping on push off

Postby Run&Ski » Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:10 pm

Bought a near new, used set of Rossignol recreational skate skis (Zymax 190 cm, my weight 162 lbs). But I'm finding that my push-off is slipping out too often because it seems the camber is too much for my weight. In other words, my weight is not enough to fully compress the camber in order for the edge of the ski to come into contact with the snow. Hence the slipping when I push off. Would moving the bindings further up on the ski help to alleviate this problem?

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Neuro
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Re: Skate ski camber and slipping on push off

Postby Neuro » Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:40 am

Had the same problem. Tried to move the binding back and forth but there was nothing for it but to get new skis.

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Re: Skate ski camber and slipping on push off

Postby davidb » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:04 am

It's not the skis; your weight is too far back. Bend those knees.

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Re: Skate ski camber and slipping on push off

Postby Loran » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:27 am

Agree.
Plus, high camber ski are usually more stiff, meaning shorter contact areas and therefore more pressure at the contact areas. Providing a proper weight transfer and technique, they slip less than soft skis...

Run&Ski
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Re: Skate ski camber and slipping on push off

Postby Run&Ski » Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:53 pm

davidb wrote:It's not the skis; your weight is too far back. Bend those knees.


Thanks. I'm new to skate skiing. I'll take your advice next time out.

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Neuro
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Re: Skate ski camber and slipping on push off

Postby Neuro » Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:46 pm

Please report back your conclusions for reference's sake.

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JeffOYB
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Re: Skate ski camber and slipping on push off

Postby JeffOYB » Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:01 pm

yeah it wd also be neat to know effect of moving binding fore and aft -- while using good technique. In striding they say moving it forward gives more kick -- hopefully also w good technique no matter what the binding setting.
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MN Hoser
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Re: Skate ski camber and slipping on push off

Postby MN Hoser » Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:49 pm

Each year I try to demo skis just to keep track of what's going on with skis on the market. Sometimes I take out skis and the front end slides out on me. You could argue it's my technique, but I think it's also something about the skis. I've also had this happen with one of my pairs in unusual conditions: it was very cold snow, firm base with 1-2 inches of new snow on top. Usually the new snow would prevent an slippage (and it did for the pair I used most of the day), but the second pair would spin out on me once in a while. Normally that pair is very stable on hard track snow. I doubt this is your problem, but I'm just pointing out that skis can make a difference and so can snow.

My guess (without seeing you ski) is that you have to run your ski's edge like a knife down the track (feathering the kick) and not try to push off like an ice skate.

Jay

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Skate Technique Re: Skate ski camber

Postby JeffOYB » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:00 am

MN Hoser wrote:...

My guess (without seeing you ski) is that you have to run your ski's edge like a knife down the track (feathering the kick) and not try to push off like an ice skate.

Jay


Now skate technique! : )

In ice speed skating we push cleanly to the side from the heel and we even train in pushing forward. You shove your heel forward as you push. (Then toe-off if using clapskate or Nordic skate.) We use a continuous motion concept where edging gradually rolls and increases.

Do you think "feathering the kick" is hiding in there somewhere or is it something special to skiing that we should consider? Subtle ski feel is fun stuff.

In figure skating there is a backward stepping aspect it seems. ...I'm helping a figure skater friend learn to classic ski and I notice she is doing more "toe off" push-back than I like to see for kick. She's also learning a bit of skate-skiing -- and she's stepping BACK as she skates then, too. I'm not stressing her or bringing up the issue since it's probably really engrained but just gradually nudge her on the topic. She is a super fast learner and will soon feel how to make the ski work. I haven't worked w a figure-skater before but the carryover was pretty easy to see.
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Run&Ski
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Re: Skate ski camber and slipping on push off

Postby Run&Ski » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:53 am

Neuro wrote:Please report back your conclusions for reference's sake.


I finally went out yesterday when the weather turned warmer. As I mentioned, I moved the bindings further forward to put more pressure on the camber and have noticed perhaps a slight improvement in grip. But I was hoping for more, a lot more. Still, these skis aren't anything like the grip and push off I get with my downhill skis. In fact, I know I could ski faster and a lot easier with my downhill skis. These things slip far too easily, b/c I'm too light for the camber in them.


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