Are "no DP" zones really affecting races?

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JeffOYB
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Are "no DP" zones really affecting races?

Postby JeffOYB » Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:51 am

If classic races didn't have the "no DP" zones would they be mostly DP or much more so? Basically, when skiers are allowed are they DPing the big long uphills which are so common on WC courses? ...and doing this to overall advantage.

I just glanced at the Holmenkollen 50k classic highlights and saw plenty of striding -- but is that due to the zones? Or just coz it's up a decent hill?

How much wd DPing w skate gear take over classic if the zones weren't there? I would think you cd just make the courses hillier. I mean, aren't they already darn hilly?
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Re: Are "no DP" zones really affecting races?

Postby Triarii » Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:16 am

The sprint in Drammen used to be DP'ed by some of the skiers, for example Northug who won in 2016.
In 2017 they implemented no DP zones in Drammen, and as far as I know, no one has DP'ed afterwards.

So yes, it clearly can affect races.

It really depends on the course and distance, but generally the courses need to be very hilly for
Holmenkollen? No chance. Everyone will be faster with waxed skis.

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Re: Are "no DP" zones really affecting races?

Postby JeffOYB » Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:00 am

maybe another way to ask is:

Are there No DP Zones in WC classic distance races?

Before the No DP Zone concept was anyone DPing entire WC Classic distance races? ...Or was it just a Sprint thing.

I wd think all WC courses are hilly -- but I suppose there is variation. Hmmm: Does a "somewhat" hilly WC course require No DP Zones to fend off boring DPers?
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Re: Are "no DP" zones really affecting races?

Postby Triarii » Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:09 am

No DP zones are typically only used in courses where FIS thinks it is probable that someone will DP and this is actually only a minority of the races on the WC calendar. There are issues with the zones, for example in Drammen where the zone is in a area where skiers with wax would prefer to DP as well.

It has only been a handful of races that has been won using DPing exclusively and it is quite recent thing. The first event I can recall is Poltaranin on the 10km in Tour de Ski 2015(?).
It has never been a dominant strategy. After that, no DP zones and shorter poles have stopped further evolution.
And it is exclusively a "men's thing".

In the Ski Classics series it is the only viable strategy in most races. Also for women in maybe half of the races.
All WC courses are hilly, but some much more than others. People have theorized that every classic race could be won DPing in a few years.

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Re: Are "no DP" zones really affecting races?

Postby JeffOYB » Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:36 am

Wow. Ppl suggest that soon EVERY race could be won by only DP? Even the most hilly? They must be finding a reasonable way to go up that isn't a whole lot slower than striding.

I wonder if this would be further inducement toward the "mt-biking of skiing" -- singletrack technical trails. Our local gang loves skiing ungroomed singletrack. (Narrow grooming could fit and sometimes snowmobiles have pre-run our trails.) The trails are so technical that I can't imagine the best "crunch skier" going up the hills reasonably. Maneuvering is required on the uphills. These trails require ski handling up and down and everywhere else.

The modern groomed racing course stands out as an obvious "road bike" equivalent to our mtbike-type ski trails. I've been trying to make this comparison for about 10 yrs without getting any wider traction but it's the biggest reality in our ski region. Very strange. We have recruited a dozen new ppl to skiing in our community and developed a scene that didn't exist before while the groomed type of sport skiing has seen little or no growth. Like, no new racing type skiers. (However, our two regional groomed courses are popular, as is the one event held -- one there is snow. We host 6 singletrack events. No "roadie" skiers ever attend.)

Odd to me (us) also that the ski industry has never made this comparison. The "mtbike of skis" could be a selling hook.
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Re: Are "no DP" zones really affecting races?

Postby jt10000 » Tue May 01, 2018 9:58 am

JeffOYB wrote:The modern groomed racing course stands out as an obvious "road bike" equivalent to our mtbike-type ski trails. I've been trying to make this comparison for about 10 yrs without getting any wider traction but it's the biggest reality in our ski region. Very strange.

Very strange that people don't agree with you. Very odd.

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Re: Are "no DP" zones really affecting races?

Postby JeffOYB » Wed May 02, 2018 11:13 am

Why be an idiot?
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Re: Are "no DP" zones really affecting races?

Postby Neuro » Thu May 03, 2018 12:32 pm

Yeah the DP 'problem' has been eliminated by the measures, but I don't believe ungroomed or rough tracks will help any. It will instead produce a lot of skating allegations.


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